Is it WotC’s responsibility to bring people to the hobby?

[Desdichado]

Unlikely for us, you're the minority.

Maybe. But maybe not. Lots of people play without really buying new stuff. Heck, I've seen handwavey estimates from WotC that up to 1 in 6-7 or so gamers are really purchasers of new material in significant numbers--basically 1 or 2 per group, mostly.

I disagree there. For me to have an attitude of "I don't really care what the hobby does, just want I need at the time" is bad for the hobby.

We can probably argue that point until the cows come home and not be able to convince each other of the opposite, though.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just don't care. I don't have any responsibility to the hobby.

I am not sure what you have in mind when I say "promote the game", but it doesn't have to be that.

As you've pointed out, finding new players is a way of promoting the game.

Admittedly my involvement with the hobby and my efforts to promote it are well above the average, but is talking with your colleagues and friends (assuming you have friends outside gaming circles. Many people don't. And I mean "you" as a generic you, not you personally) to make the game known to them that hard or time consuming?

I think it's obnoxious and in most cases socially unacceptable--maybe not to the level of rude, but certainly to the point of being highly annoying--to talk about your hobbies with people with whom you don't share them. Doesn't mean I hide the fact that I'm a gamer (heck, I've got a baseball sized d20 on my desk at work, which invariably susses out gamers when they see it), but I don't do anything else to promote the hobby either.

And frankly, I don't think I should feel any obligation to.

Well, when I hear someone telling me "I'm leaving the hobby because you're telling me I should promote it" I will believe that.

Until then, I will believe that a pretty exaggerated response to the thread.

You believe that when a hobby isn't fun anymore, people leaving the hobby is an exaggerated response?

See, I think the main problem with this entire premise is that it assumes a priori that the hobby should be promoted, or that any given individual should do stuff merely because it's "good for the hobby." There's an easy response to that: why? I don't think that's really been adequately answered except in specious and vague ways. I have no incentive to do anything "for the good of the hobby." As long as I have a solid gaming group that I like playing with and adequate material to play with, why should I care at all what happens to the hobby overall? And I have a great gaming group that I really enjoy playing with, I know many other players waiting in the wings that I could recruit with little effort if I needed to, I know how to find new players if I move, or whatever, and I have more material than I can reasonably use in a lifetime.

And even if I didn't, there's so much fan based stuff out there that I don't see any sign of that drying up anytime soon. And even if I move, there are getting to be some pretty good options for playing non-face-to-face (Google+ hang-outs, etc.) that folks have had good success with. Not that it's exactly the same, but still. And I still have many other hobbies that--to some degree--have suffered because of time spent on roleplaying that I'd be happy to slot into place and devote some time to if my roleplaying ever falls apart.

I just really see no reason to be concerned about the good of the hobby. At all. I have zero motivation whatsoever.

 

[Leviatham]

Now you are getting into the realm of driving your non playing friends and co workers nuts.

It is one thing to let it be known you game. I share funny things on my Facebook page as well as news. I don't keep it a secret. I often work on my campaign in public places like the book store and I have answered questions when people ask about it.

But nothing is more obnoxious then trying to convince them to play. Think about it do you want to hear endless stories about my Barbie collecting? Nothing is more a turn off then someone being in your face.

Back in the old days I promoted gaming at conventions not gaming conventions but literary, media, comic and even Mediawest the big Fanzine con. I don't do this anymore because my health is not up to traveling and I don't have the finances to attend many cons.

Driving friends and co-workers nuts? Convince them to play?

Not sure how "talk to your colleagues about it" has, all of a sudden, "drive them nuts and be in their face".

Isn't there a middle point in which you can just talk about it without doing any of that?

 

[Guest 85555]

If we really want to promote rpgs on a larger scale as a community, i think high profile media exposure is the way to go. When I was a kid I knew about gaming because it appeared in the media and in toy stores. I dont know that you can repeat that early excitement when D&D was first emerging, but trying to get a major celebrity like Steven Colbert to host a televised game for charity (or perhaps a gaming event) would be top on my list. Companies have done similar things to target gamers at cons (though I dont think any have used someone as big as colbert). Why not take that approach and use it to grow the hobby rather than promote a single RPG among folks who already game?

 

[Guest 85555]

See, I think the main problem with this entire premise is that it assumes a priori that the hobby should be promoted, or that any given individual should do stuff merely because it's "good for the hobby." There's an easy response to that: why? I don't think that's really been adequately answered except in specious and vague ways. I have no incentive to do anything "for the good of the hobby." As long as I have a solid gaming group that I like playing with and adequate material to play with, why should I care at all what happens to the hobby overall? And I have a great gaming group that I really enjoy playing with, I know many other players waiting in the wings that I could recruit with little effort if I needed to, I know how to find new players if I move, or whatever, and I have more material than I can reasonably use in a lifetime.
.

First, congrats on having a great gaming group. Nice to see someone praising the peope he games with. I too have a group that works well together and is always a blast.

Second, if you don't wish to promote the hobby or feel it is to your advantage, then I think not promoting the hobby is a perfectly acceptible course of action.

Personally I have an interest is promoting the hobby. Not only do I publish rpgs but as a GM and player I want to be surrounded by a growing and vibrant gaming culture so there are always people to play with and new perspectives coming to the table. There is also the joy of showing someone rpgs for the first time. Not only to teach tem about the hobby but talking and expaining things to someone with no experiences leads you to rediscover many of the fundamentals.

 

[Leviatham]

Maybe. But maybe not. Lots of people play without really buying new stuff. Heck, I've seen handwavey estimates from WotC that up to 1 in 6-7 or so gamers are really purchasers of new material in significant numbers--basically 1 or 2 per group, mostly.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just don't care. I don't have any responsibility to the hobby.

I think it's obnoxious and in most cases socially unacceptable--maybe not to the level of rude, but certainly to the point of being highly annoying--to talk about your hobbies with people with whom you don't share them. Doesn't mean I hide the fact that I'm a gamer (heck, I've got a baseball sized d20 on my desk at work, which invariably susses out gamers when they see it), but I don't do anything else to promote the hobby either.

And frankly, I don't think I should feel any obligation to.

You believe that when a hobby isn't fun anymore, people leaving the hobby is an exaggerated response?

See, I think the main problem with this entire premise is that it assumes a priori that the hobby should be promoted, or that any given individual should do stuff merely because it's "good for the hobby." There's an easy response to that: why? I don't think that's really been adequately answered except in specious and vague ways. I have no incentive to do anything "for the good of the hobby." As long as I have a solid gaming group that I like playing with and adequate material to play with, why should I care at all what happens to the hobby overall? And I have a great gaming group that I really enjoy playing with, I know many other players waiting in the wings that I could recruit with little effort if I needed to, I know how to find new players if I move, or whatever, and I have more material than I can reasonably use in a lifetime.

And even if I didn't, there's so much fan based stuff out there that I don't see any sign of that drying up anytime soon. And even if I move, there are getting to be some pretty good options for playing non-face-to-face (Google+ hang-outs, etc.) that folks have had good success with. Not that it's exactly the same, but still. And I still have many other hobbies that--to some degree--have suffered because of time spent on roleplaying that I'd be happy to slot into place and devote some time to if my roleplaying ever falls apart.

I just really see no reason to be concerned about the good of the hobby. At all. I have zero motivation whatsoever.

Maybe for me is that I know a lot of the amazing people who make a living out of writing, editing, illustrating and publising games and I don't want that to end.

Still, you obviously don't care, and I obviously am not going to try to make you care, so we've reached a stale mate.

 

[BobROE]

Personally I have an interest is promoting the hobby. Not only do I publish rpgs but as a GM and player I want to be surrounded by a growing and vibrant gaming culture so there are always people to play with and new perspectives coming to the table. There is also the joy of showing someone rpgs for the first time. Not only to teach tem about the hobby but talking and expaining things to someone with no experiences leads you to rediscover many of the fundamentals.

And that's cool, if you enjoy doing it, power to you. But I'm a socialy awkward introvert who doesn't really like people, so trying to "grow the hobby" (whatever that actually means) seems like a unfun use of my time.

And as such I don't see it as any of our "responsibilities" to grow the hobby.

The responsibility has to lie with the product holders, not to spend time
"growing the RPG hobby" but to grow the portion of the hobbiest community that uses/enjoys/buys their products. And as a by-product of that the hobby as a whole would grow (where the hobby is made up the collection of groups of people who play each individual product).

 

[enrious]

Responsibility to bring people into the hobby? No.

But it is in their business interests to do so.

 

[Elf Witch]

Driving friends and co-workers nuts? Convince them to play?

Not sure how "talk to your colleagues about it" has, all of a sudden, "drive them nuts and be in their face".

Isn't there a middle point in which you can just talk about it without doing any of that?

I am just saying I have seen people drive other people crazy with endless stories about their hobbies, pets and children.

You used the word promote that has a very different meaning than casually mentioning that you game.

 

[Leviatham]

I am just saying I have seen people drive other people crazy with endless stories about their hobbies, pets and children.

You used the word promote that has a very different meaning than casually mentioning that you game.

The meaning I gave to promote is the meaning in the dictionary:

To help or encourage to exist or flourish.

The extent of the application of the promotion is a different thing altogether. If it is becomes annoying is because the person is annoying, not because promoting something has to be.

 

[Elf Witch]

The meaning I gave to promote is the meaning in the dictionary:

To help or encourage to exist or flourish.

The extent of the application of the promotion is a different thing altogether. If it is becomes annoying is because the person is annoying, not because promoting something has to be.

All I am saying that you need to make sure your promoting your hobby does not turn you into a bore.