Is Ray of Enfeeblement too good?

[edhel]

I'd rather cast empowered Enervation for that 6th level slot since negative levels stack and they're much worse in many ways.

 

[Diirk]

Um, I'm not sure how I got 15-19, I need more coffee... your numbers look right, but I swear there must be some reason why I wrote 15-19, and 7-9 is half of that, so it looks like he did too. Idunno !

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

So a maximised touch of idiocy -6 to cha + -6wis + -6 to int and if empowered that would be the cost of a (+3+2=7th level spell) but would be -9 to each....I dont have the books is there a save for this? I f I remember right it was a touch attack?
Thorncrest

 

[CM]

So a maximised touch of idiocy -6 to cha + -6wis + -6 to int and if empowered that would be the cost of a (+3+2=7th level spell) but would be -9 to each....I dont have the books is there a save for this? I f I remember right it was a touch attack?
Thorncrest

Actually, for empower you don't increase the maximized value by 50%, you increase the original (1d6) value by 50%. So a maximized, empowered touch of idiocy would deal 6 + (1d6 x .5) damage to Int, Wis, and Cha. (I'd be inclined to just roll 1d3 for the empowered value myself, but that's not strictly correct.)

 

[Diirk]

If you combine maximise with empower, its in fact the maximised spell + 1/2 the result of the empowered spell, not 1.5x the maximised spell. For your touch of idiocy example, the penalty is 6 (maximised) + 1/2 x 1d6 (empowered portion).

 

[kenobi65]

So a maximised touch of idiocy -6 to cha + -6wis + -6 to int and if empowered that would be the cost of a (+3+2=7th level spell) but would be -9 to each....I dont have the books is there a save for this? I f I remember right it was a touch attack?

No save, but yes, it's a touch attack.

For relative power, I don't think this is that out of whack with other 7th level spells (c.v. Finger of Death, Insanity, Prismatic Spray).

BUT...because you could use a Metamagic Rod (Maximize) to knock this all down to a 4th level spell, a 7th level caster could pull this off. And *that* is kind of broken.

(Edit: a Metamagic Rod (Maximize) is 54,000gp...if I was letting a 7th level caster walk around with that, I'd be an idiot. But, a Metamagic Rod (Lesser Empower) is only 9,000gp, and it'd let a 9th level caster pull this off. Still broken.)

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

is there a save?

 

[Quinnman]

Making RoE a no save spell in 3.5 was way over the line in my book!

A char in heavy armor is effectively taken out of the fight with this one (1st level!) spell... unless his strength is very high or he carries nothing but his armor...

What I mean is... many chars (even fighters) have a str between 14 and 16 making them able to carry 175-230 lbs as their absolute max.

A 4th level caster casting RoE will with a roll of 3 give a penalty of 5 to str... that brings the str down to between 9 and 11, reducing absolute max to 90-115! (Make it a good roll and things really start to happen!)

Now take a fighter with full plate (50 lb), heavy steel shield (20 lb), weapon, blanket, sacks, torches etc. and you will surprisingly fast get beyond that max!... making that char unable to move... thus no longer able to fight...

For a low-level group in a low-magic world (such as ours ) RoE is WAY too good!

 

[Quinnman]

Btw... would you guys rule the same as me in that situation? That a char carrying more than his modified str allows can´t move?

Would you still let him fight, but just not move, or would he fall down prone, or just standing there being able to do nothing?

Thanx

 

[kenobi65]

is there a save?

To Touch of Idiocy? No.