Is Ray of Enfeeblement too good?

[juliaromero]

I'm beginning to hate Ray of Enfeeb. The no save and it being a first level spell is just game breaking sometimes. My group has really got the tactic down with now when faced with a strong bad guy --- wizard has quickened ray, plus a normal (soon to be plus a twinned), fighter has one or two in spell storing weapons, and the rogue has them in a staff. Put them up against a huge bad guy with lots of hit points and in a forbiddance area so no maze (the other killer spell) and it takes one round usually, max two to get the bad guy down to 1 Str.

Not everything can have a high SR or globe. So a first level spell has pretty much made an entire class of bad guys useless as opponents ... big strong monsters without really high SR.

How do you even rule an Elder Earth elemental with 1 strength? Can it move it's own bulk?

If it was higher level or allowed a save that would be one thing .... and of coures, just to add insult to injury, if they are fighitng a living monster the rogue even gets sneak attack damage with it if the situation is right. How good is that? xd6 negative energy touch attack plus auto strength drain. It gets ugly fast.

 

[Corsair]

note that they don't stack with themselves. They are penalties, not ability damage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

note that they don't stack with themselves. They are penalties, not ability damage.

This is also the reason that you can't sneak attack with it. It doesn't deal damage (hit point damage, ability damage, or negative levels), therefore it is not a weaponlike spell.

In Tome and Blood, in fact, Ray of Enfeeblement was the example they used of 'not a weaponlike spell'.

No stacking, no critting, no sneak attacking. Just a penalty.

Twinning RoE is far less useful than Empowering it, since the increased penalty (from Empower) applies, but the stacked penalty (from Twin) does not.

(Note that the short description of the spell in the Wiz/Sor list is inaccurate; refer to the full spell text.)

-Hyp.

 

[Kalendraf]

1 STR...

Sounds like you are definitely running this spell wrong. As the others have said, it does not stack with itself, so only 1 ray of enfeeblement will be in effect at any time on any given creature.

 

[juliaromero]

That makes a big difference. Good to know. I guess I hand't read it carefully ... I assumed it was ability damage. That makes it pretty lame then, which is about right for a first level spell.

Is this the same for Touch of Idiocy too then? Is that just a penalty instead of ability damage?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is this the same for Touch of Idiocy too then? Is that just a penalty instead of ability damage?

"Your successful melee touch attack applies a 1d6 penalty to the target’s Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores."

You tell me

-Hyp.

 

[Derren]

But instead of quicken, your player will now empower it and it is as bad as before.

 

[fuindordm]

But instead of quicken, your player will now empower it and it is as bad as before.

The best you could do is maximize and empower it for a penatly of 7-9 Str with no save, and effectively a 5th level spell. That sounds reasonable to me--compare to Bestow Curse (3rd level) that can impose a penalty of -6 to any attribute but allows a saving throw.

Ben

 

[Diirk]

The best you could do is maximize and empower it for a penatly of 7-9 Str with no save, and effectively a 5th level spell. That sounds reasonable to me--compare to Bestow Curse (3rd level) that can impose a penalty of -6 to any attribute but allows a saving throw.

Maximized (+3 level) and empowered (+2 level) on a 1st level spell makes it occupy a 6th level slot, not a 5th. On the plus side its not 7-9 str penalty, as that would imply their str is lowered by 7-9, when its actually lowered by 15-19. You are correct that their str modifier is lowered by 7-9 tho. Bestow Curse lowers their attribute by 6, not their modifier.

 

[Pinotage]

Maximized (+3 level) and empowered (+2 level) on a 1st level spell makes it occupy a 6th level slot, not a 5th. On the plus side its not 7-9 str penalty, as that would imply their str is lowered by 7-9, when its actually lowered by 15-19. You are correct that their str modifier is lowered by 7-9 tho. Bestow Curse lowers their attribute by 6, not their modifier.

Is that right? Assuming 10th Caster Level, a Maximised RoE gives a 11 point penalty to strength. If you Empower that as well, the range 6-11 (1d6+5) gets multiplied by half for a range of 3-5 added to 11, giving 14-16? Did I get that right?

Pinotage