Is Rogue a problematic class?

[Jon_Dahl]

After almost 50 sessions I've come to a conclusion that the rogue is a problem. Our group originally consisted a wizard, fighter and a bard. At 5th-level a halfling rogue joined the group and stayed with them for about 30 sessions. During those sessions I repeatedly noticed how problematic this class is.

Sneak attack is useless in surprisingly many ways. Quite often circumstances ruin sneak attacks, because opponents fly, attack from long distance, attack from water, fight in tight spaces etc. Also several monsters have immunity to criticals. Big monsters also pose problems because they can be very difficult to get around, especially due to their reach. Multiple opponents also impose a bit of a problem for a backstabber. Mobility is required to efficiently flank your opponent and halflings (the official rogue race!) don't have that luxury. And even if you flank and successfully sneak attack a 1st-level orc warrior, you still have to move 30 ft away and get behind that second orc...

Also rogues and traps give me a headache, because they are one of the most unforgiving and individualistic aspect of the game. While other characters wait in the background, the rogue either disables the trap or dies trying. This has been happening in our games and I don't see anything even remotely resembling a cooperative game when the party rogue finds a trap and tries to disarm it.

For some reason this player has decided to make another rogue, which is very gallant of him but I'm afraid that the awkwardness we have seen so far will continue unchanged.

 

[Dandu]

The Rogue Handbook shall help you.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Your observations are sound. Traps are a very unglorious thing to specialize in, and I try to slough off that responsibility to some other schmuck (like a barbarian who can simply "take it") whenever possible when playing a rogue. I still remember my first rogue, also one of my favorite rogues... Had a monster search check no one else in the party could have matched on a 20...found a secret area under the floor warded with a super duper powerful/deadly magical trap. Entire rest of the party went to the other room and "cheered for me" as I debated if I wanted to chance the huge DC and risk gods knows what. I do, I make it, and those ingrates were so darn quick to come back in and expect an equal cut of the loot I singlehandedly risked my neck for! Yeah, I learned pretty fast how stupid it is to be the trap monkey...

And yes, rogue has a lot of issues in combat. You can overcome them a lot using that handbook, but no doubt rogue takes a lot of optimization to be capable in melee, and more importantly, survivable.

The short list of key things:

Staggering Strike feat (C.Adv.)
Penetrating Strike (Dungeonscape, replaces trapsense to do half SA damage to anything immune to it)
Weapon augment crystals (MIC; greater truedeath and demolition crystals, specifically)


There's a lot more that helps greatly, but those are the cornerstones for not sucking or dying.

 

[Dandu]

A rogue should probably ask a spellcaster to help with complicated magical traps. A summon, dispel, or other relevant spell could save the party a lot of trouble.

 

[xigbar]

Especially at higher levels, losing a 1st level spell slot for trap fodder is probably more efficient.

 

[Shin Okada]

Yep. A party should not totally rely on a rogue (or other classes with Trapfinding class feature). Divinations, Abjurations & Summons should be co-used. Especially after, say, 5+ levels.

In case of rogue combat optimization, I usually end up making some multi-classed rogue/spellcaster. Sneak attack + touch spell is often far much efficient than sneak attack + weapon attack. Illusions and Transmutations give more chance to make sneak attacks. And spells give you at least some edge when an opponent is totally immune to sneak attacks. Finally, spells such as Divine Insight allows a rogue to actually beat very high DC for disabling magical traps.

Or, I just take, say, 1-4 levels of rogue-ish class and then make a melee combatant who just has Search (and maybe disable device) skill at appropriate rank. That kind of character is, basically, just an usual armor-clad melee brute with high Str. Sneak attack extra damage is just an occasional bonus.

I think the designers in WotC well knew that 3.Xe sneak attack mechanism was basically a failure. That is why they made Scout (and that great Swift Hunter feat). And also why they removed immunities against crit/sneak attacks in 4e.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Also, I just noticed the OP called halflings the "official rogue race." Maybe they are technically, but they've always sucked at their job...even worse than elves suck at being wizards. Speed 20 and absolutely no special vision on a class whose primary means of contributing in combat is shut down by being in a dark alleyway (what was the thinking there, anyway?) is a super awful combo.

At the very least, if you're going to do halfling rogue, do deep halfling from the MM. It's hard to be sneaky when you're carrying a lantern.

 

[Greenfield]

Back in 1e/2e we had a player running a Halfling "fighter". Who used a short sword and only wore leather armor. Yeah, a Fighter. Sure.

Came the time the Dwarven fighter found a chest and called, "Hey thief, come over and look at this."

The Halfling questioned, "Why are you looking at me? And why did you call me that?"

The Dwarf's player, thinking quickly, replied, "Oh, sorry. 'Thief' is just the Dwarvish word for 'Halfling'."

And that's how it's been in our games ever since.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

If you removed crit/sneak attack immunity from creatures you won't notice a problem, and you put some fun back (crits and sneak attack are fun). Though I'd leave the incorporeal condition still immune to them . . .

If you let rogues get Full BAB when targets are denied Dex or when flanked, you won't notice a problem, and you'll make the rogue more effective a combatant. Then anklets of translocation will help the rogue get into flank a bit more often.

I dunno about traps, sure sucks. Short of giving the rogue spell support . . . I bet an action point system to allow rerolls of saves would help failed Disable attempts. If you had the party contribute a party pool of action points to be shared when needed, then when the rogue is off solo disabling traps for the party, the rogue pulls from the party pool of action points (not his own) to improve Disable skill rolls or to retry failed Disable rolls or to reroll saving throws.

 

[Wyvernhand]

WotC fixed the Rogue when they reprinted him in the PHBII, except that they changed the name of the class to Beguiler. Oh well, its good enough for me!