D&D 5E Is sneak attack damage divided by 2 when you Dual Wield?

[eprieur]

The relevant rules:
DW Benefit: you can make two attacks as an action, one with each weapon. All the damage of each of these attacks is halved.

Deadly Strike: Benefit: When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can spend expertise dice to add to the attack’s damage against that creature. Roll any expertise die you spend in this way, and add its result to the damage. If the attack is a critical hit, maximize the expertise die.

Sneak Attack: Benefit: Once per round, you can deal Sneak Attack damage to a creature that you hit with an attack. To deal this extra damage, you must have advantage against the creature.

Critical Hit: If your attack is a critical hit, it deals maximum damage. Treat all the damage dice you roll, including bonus dice from abilities such as Sneak Attack, as if you rolled their maximum results.

It's unclear to me right now if sneak attack work the same way as deadly strike in regard to dual wield. Meaning that it's clear that the damage you add with deadly strike is divided by 2, the damage you do with sneak attack might not be divided by 2. Was that mentionned and confirmed somewhere? If that's the case, at least the DW option would be very good for rogues, upgrading their damage in a worthwhile way.

 

[Li Shenron]

Sneak Attack: Benefit: Once per round, you can deal Sneak Attack damage to a creature that you hit with an attack. To deal this extra damage, you must have advantage against the creature.

It seems to me that you do not divide it, but apply the whole of it to one of the two attacks, your choice.

 

[eprieur]

That's my current idea, it would make DW pretty good for rogues, useless or very bad for fighters. It's kinda strange. The rule about critical hits kinda make me think it's still unclear how it work.

Do you roll both dices at the same time? 1 at a time? It's alot stronger if you roll both attacks at the same time then assign them.

 

[GameDoc]

Actually, I don't think you halve the expertise dice from Deadly Strike either.

Deadly Strike: Benefit: When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can spend expertise dice to add to the attack’s damage against that creature. Roll any expertise die you spend in this way, and add its result to the damage. If the attack is a critical hit, maximize the expertise die.

I read this to mean that you resolve the attack's damage (including adjusting for ability modifiers and halving for dual weild or rapid shot) then roll the expertise dice and add the result.

In the case of a critical hit, you take half the maximum damage and then the full value of the expertise dice.

Effectively, it works the same as Sneak Attack.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Yeah, I agree. You can argue the letter of the law all you want, but all that matters to me is that, if you half SA and DS, then dual-wielding really really sucks. If you give SA and DS as a bonus, then it's an interesting choice that is useful for many characters.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Two Weapon Fighting says all the damage of each of these attacks is halved. This should include damage that it added to them, such as Deadly Strike or Sneak Attack.

The point of this Feat is not so much to increase lethality but versatility.

 

[DEFCON 1]

With dual-wielded weapons bothing being halved... the intent seems to be that *if* you hit with both attacks, you should do about the same amount of damage than you would by using a single weapon. The exchange is having to roll a second to-hit in return for getting to split your damage over two targets.

So in terms of Deadly Strike and Sneak Attack... my belief is the intention should follow this example. At the end of the round, if you hit with both attacks, you should do approximately the same amount of damage with DS and SA as you would on a single attack. And this can be accomplished two different ways... either adding your total DS and SA to one of the two attacks after it's damage is calculated and halved... *or* rolling and adding your DS and SA damage to each dual-wielded attack, and halving them both. That way you get about the same amount of damage gained from DS and SA... just also split up over two targets.

I haven't tested either method yet... but I do think that adding DS and SA to only one of the two attacks after damage was calculated and halved would be a little more overpowered than adding/halving DS/SA over both attacks. Because your odds of getting to add the full amount of DS/SA damage are better when you only need to hit on one of the two attacks (provided of course that you allow the player to choose after the attack rolls have been made which attack he can add DS/SA to... considering he'd always choose the attack that actually hit).

Speaking personally... I'd rule it that on any attack a player dual-wields their attacks... they would always add their DS and SA damage to both damage rolls prior to halving them both. If the player only hit on one of two attacks, then they'd only get half the full value of DS and SA. If the player ever wanted to get the full value of DS and SA, then they'd have to choose to only attack with one of their weapons prior to rolling the attack. Then if he hit, he could add the full value of DS/SA as they would any other player.

 

[eprieur]

Yeah but adding sneak attack twice and deadly strike dices twice is a bit more complicated for not much gain imo. Also as a speciality, it has to give you something, even if it's a small something.

Later I'll post some numbers on some of the scenario I made the dps spreadsheet for those cases last week.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I am leaning toward bonus damage not being half... but I am biased since my first character was a hafling fighter with DW spec

 

[DEFCON 1]

Yeah but adding sneak attack twice and deadly strike dices twice is a bit more complicated for not much gain imo. Also as a speciality, it has to give you something, even if it's a small something.

Later I'll post some numbers on some of the scenario I made the dps spreadsheet for those cases last week.

Well, the gain from that one feat is the ability to split your damage over two targets. Gaining "more damage" than a single weapon build I do not believe is supposed to be the benefit of the feat.

Granted, the counterargument to that is that the single weapon wielder will get to do more damage on average due to wielding a bigger-damage-die two-handed weapon (compared to the total damage of adding two weapons that are dual-wieldable together.) So yes... being able to add a complete amount of DS/SA damage to either dual-wielded attack after it's been determined whether either have hit, might help balance that damage discrepancy. Like I said, I haven't run any tests to see whether that discrepancy is enough to give the dual-wielder build that bonus or not to help balance things.

My own feeling though is that at the end of the day... the damage a two-handed character and dual-wielder character should be about the same. And the bonus gained from the first feat in the dual-wield chain is that in exchange for making a second attack roll... you can split your damage up over two targets (which is a tactical bonus when you are fighting many small creatures, or have an opponent almost dead and a second one within range).

To me, in the playtest, dual-wielding is not meant to be a "higher damage" feat chain, but a "tactical choice" feat chain.