Is the D&D fanbase too divided?

[Desdichado]

This is a bunch of overly optimistic malarkey.

Gamers are at each others throats and arguing more than they ever have. Most GMs that run good games use the 3E mechanics but stil rely on other editions or other systems for flavor. Essentially the 3E products, other than the core and a few releases, are flavorless.

Denying reality doesn't make it go away.

Excuse me... I'm choking on my Slurpee just now because this made me laugh out loud in my office.



Indeed. The reality, which I suspect that you're denying is that that problems you've talked about are problems with players, DMs and groups and have nothing at all to do with the game.

 

[Mort]

Ok, I am going to let my first retort ride...

So the internet is the criminal? Are these posters arguing over the latest version of Windows or over the ruleset and social elements of the D&D game? Also, are these arguments over the weather or over what the players think the GM should allow in his/her game?

~~~

No, as stated people argue about D&D on D&D message boards because they like to argue and it's a D&D message board.

Go on a computer focused message board and you'll see plenty of posters arguing about the latest version of windows.

 

[Jedi_Solo]

No real roleplayer wants rehashed rules and PrCs in book after book.

*raises hand*

I take issue with this one!

I like PrCs. I like feats. I like classes. I like taking on a different persona and I like talking to my DM as I try to work my way past guards or not a have a king throw me in prison for the week.

How, exactly, does the newest book having feats, PrCs and classes mean I can't do as great a job bluffing the guards as I was able to a week prior to the book's release?

 

[Crothian]

No real roleplayer wants rehashed rules and PrCs in book after book.

That is flat out wrong. There are plenty of role players that also happen to like these things. That is why they play D&D 3.x if you don't like them then you should play a different game. It is not like there is a lack of gaming options these days.

 

[GreatLemur]

Flavor does not stifle creativity it empowers it. For instance 2E Ravenloft has considerably more flavor than the 3E books. Since it is based more on storytelling as opposed to books full of mechanics one can easily actualize and create a character that goes along with the world.

Sure, that's great as long as you want to play Ravenloft.

But if you're trying to build something original, all that "flavor" is at best inspirational, most likely useless, and at worst an outright impediment. I think the world's got quite enough inspiration available in it already without miring potentially-useful mechanics in flavor and getting in the way of homebrew campaign settings.

But I'd like to hear more specifically on just what 3E/v.3.5 releases you've found so critically lacking in flavor. Personally, I think the Eberron books, the Tome of Magic, and the Tome of Battle are some of the most flavorful stuff ever produced for D&D*. Are your objections more with the Complete... books? Or with the whole archetype-breaking concept of feats, skills, flexible multiclassing, and prestige classes?


*Well, okay, on second thought, Eberron is not the more flavorful campaign setting ever, particularly because of one thing: It has a place for freaking everything. The really powerful things about Ravenloft and Dark Sun were all the standard D&D elements that they lacked. But that's a conversation for another thread.

 

[WayneLigon]

One has only to take a quick look at certain threads or how long splats stay on the book shelf at the local bookstore to see how they are not selling.

No real roleplayer wants rehashed rules and PrCs in book after book.

Oh, so you're really just dredging up the old roll-player vs role-player arguement, about how real roleplayers didn't need all these rules and player-oriented stuff? I mean, is that honestly what you're on about here, because that certainly makes it sound like you are.

Sorry, that doesn't fly and never has. It's a tired and stupid cliche right up there with the jokes about walking ten miles to school every day in the snow, uphill, both ways. I like tons of options and classes and PrC's and all sorts of other stuff; nothing in that is going to make me a better roleplayer or detract from my coming up with deep and rich character background. A five- to seven-page background is normal for me and most of my gaming group yet we love pouring through new rules and fiddling with character creation and weighing the merits of feat A vs Feat B.

 

[Desdichado]

I say they are universal and when D&D tanks you will too.

Oh. Nevermind. I assumed that this thread was serious.

 

[Maggan]

So the internet is the criminal? Are these posters arguing over the latest version of Windows ...
~~~

Oh, gads, yes. More people argue vehemently over the last version of Windows than there are people actually PLAYING D&D.

Maybe not entirely true, but I'm sure you are aware of the massive flamewars ignited by differences in computing preferences.

/M

 

[Maggan]

I'm not talking about En World; I am talking about D&D.

~~~

Evidently, this is one of those threads that I should avoid. Have fun, all of you, I'm off to do some prepping for my game.

/M

 

[Sigurd]

Perhaps greater access to information gives people more to argue about and there are certainly more choices to be made about character development in 3.5 but I don't think D&D is more combatively divided, perhaps more complex. I think it depends on what you accept from each other as acceptable behavior.

I agree that Gamers are a quarrelsome lot but in 20+ years of play that has always been the case. I don't agree that any books for a hobby bear responsibility for the actions of the players. Rude people don't get a free ride by blaming how many books they have.

I think a certain amount of fragmentation is unavoidable. Writer A mostly does his\her best job on what they see as different not the same. If you don't like Writer A ignore them.

Also don't forget we have all the previous editions of the game, and other games, as influences. It used to be hugely different to go from Runequest to D&D or AD&D and (in my circle) Traveler was something strange and exotic. Today I see more competition for online gaming dollars and more presence of alternate game systems in backwaters and people's experience. I feel like we are a smaller market with more publishers trying to be viable on what we buy.

Rules and game expansions give us more to talk about (and have opinions about). The net is such a good medium for sharing game creativity. You really don't need monster books anymore for example. The changes have put us in each others faces more often for good and bad. I play Fantasy Grounds and I have never had so many possible traditional pen and paper games available to me in 20+ years. My books get a workout and my car doesn't .


Sigurd