Is the DMG 2 recommended?

[Mathew_Freeman]

I'm about 1/3 of the way through it. After DMing 20+ years, it still offers me new approaches to running a campaign. The way I look at it, it's like a collective brain dump of 20+ years of veteran DM advice.

That's the quote I'm looking for - right there.

20 years of collective brain dump is a perfect description of the book, and I think the book is fantastic. If you're a new DM, or even if you're not I think you'll find a lot to work from it.

 

[fba827]

In my group, I'm the one that actually purchases the books since I host the games. So borrowing will be out of the question. I have a feeling I wouldn't be referring to it much compared to other products, but it is very encouraging to hear such positive feedback so far.

I doubt, in the long term, it will be used as a reference material any more often than DMG1 is.

From what I gather, it has some templates, traps, how to build companion characters which is very similar to simplified npcs in dmg1, and some alternative rewards.

So it depends on what you're looking for... "advice type stuff that is a GOOD read" vs. reference/crunch stuff

 

[The_Gneech]

I was underwhelmed, myself; most of the "collective storytelling" stuff was state-of-the-gaming-industry in, well, 1989, and already written by Aaron Allston for Champions. The traps chapter, which is what I bought it for, still seemed lean on hard mechanics to work with, but I'm hoping a re-read will make this clearer. And the rest is all about Sigil, which is great if you like it I suppose, but not my cup of tea.

So I'd go with the "borrow from a friend over the weekend" option myself.

-The Gneech

 

[Trainz]

Let's say you like good fluff, but you already bought 11 4th ed books and want so save it for books with actual crunch in them.

Is it still worth it?

 

[Trainz]

Perhaps by purchasing it you are encouraging more books of its kind to come into existence?

So in other words, if you want to encourage books with actual gaming mechanics and DM tools in them, don't buy it?

Thanks guys, I got my answer.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Honestly, how much more crunch IS there that show up for 4e? Especially DM only crunch? Page 42 already answers all of ones needs when you have to "wing it" and DMG1 covers the vast majority of other specific kinds of situations (flying, swimming, etc). DMG2 contains exactly the sort of crunch you would expect, a bunch of new terrain/hazard types, more traps, more monster functional templates, class templates for PHB2 classes, and some minor clarifications (there could have been more) on skill challenges. The rest is a mix of example skill challenges, campaign ideas, more information on encounter design, the various sections on DMing techniques, and then a hefty section at the end describing Sigil in considerably more detail than MotP did, including several mini-adventures. Consider that last part to be the equivalent of the Nentir Vale stuff in DMG1, quite possibly useful to many DMs at some point but at best probably just educational to others.

I enjoyed reading it. Considering its $19 at Amazon I can't really say it was money badly spent. Sure I've DMed for 30 something years and a lot of the DM advice kind of stuff isn't exactly entirely new to me it was still nice to see a good writup with specific ideas. The crunch parts, while you can live without them, were nice. Terrain powers in particular are handy. Having a number of them as examples will make doing that sort of thing quick and easy. The stuff on boons (rewards) was nicely thought out for the most part. The new artifacts are interesting. ETC. That stuff seemed worth most of the price to me alone.

Can you live without it? Sure. I'd say its less immediately useful on a daily basis than any of the other core books, but I still want to have it. I'd say for those who like making up most of their own material its especially good. If you mostly run modules and the majority of your game is hack-n-slash, then maybe its somewhat less useful, though the traps etc will still come in handy.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I was underwhelmed, myself; most of the "collective storytelling" stuff was state-of-the-gaming-industry in, well, 1989, and already written by Aaron Allston for Champions. The traps chapter, which is what I bought it for, still seemed lean on hard mechanics to work with, but I'm hoping a re-read will make this clearer. And the rest is all about Sigil, which is great if you like it I suppose, but not my cup of tea.

I'm not going to try to change your mind about the book, but this is simply factually inaccurate. Sigil occupies one chapter of the book. There's lots of adventure-, story-, and campaign-building advice that's got nothing to do with "collective storytelling." There are lots of mechanics that aren't trap-based. To say that it's just those, and "the rest is Sigil," isn't even an exaggeration; it's just wrong.

 

[beldar1215]

I'm currently reading through the book. I really like what I have read so far. I'm going to be making a couple of campaion characters for this weekends game. I can never get enough GOOD GM advise.

Beldar

 

[Trainz]

Honestly, how much more crunch IS there that show up for 4e? Especially DM only crunch?

Top of my head?

One thing that DM's everywhere always wanted but seldom had (except when delivered by someone in the community) is a Monster Manual format of NPC's of all levels. That book would sell like hot cakes, and would be well received as a chapter (or many) in a DM guide.

Even though the new system is miles ahead of 3.5 NPC rules, it still requires a lot of page flippin' and knowledge of the classes' powers, and with the number of powers available for each class, you're stuck making NPC's with the few classes you're familiar with.

But, hey, yay fluff!

 

[The_Gneech]

I'm not going to try to change your mind about the book, but this is simply factually inaccurate. Sigil occupies one chapter of the book. There's lots of adventure-, story-, and campaign-building advice that's got nothing to do with "collective storytelling." There are lots of mechanics that aren't trap-based. To say that it's just those, and "the rest is Sigil," isn't even an exaggeration; it's just wrong.

Well I certainly didn't mean to step on your toes; I was speaking of impressions. The "paragon campaign" material and Sigil all blends together in my mind because 4E has this "paragon = Planescape or you're doing it wrong" vibe which turns me off. As it is, one chapter or no, that stuff is 40+ pages of a 220-page book. True, not half, but not exactly a trivial portion either. And I did say that stuff was good for those interested in the topic, even I personally am not.

I will say that there's a fairly significant section about "themed monsters" that I should have mentioned. The only reason I didn't is because I was already doing that with my homebrew stuff and so that section didn't register on my personal radar.

-The Gneech