Nyeshet
First Post
Depending on the item, I might just give it to him - with the proviso that what is good for the PCs is also good for the NPCs.
However, I would not add the discounts together. I would multiply them, thus reducing the final actual discount. For an example: An item costs 10,000 gp to make. After the 30% discount it costs 7,000 gp to make. After another 30% discount it costs 4,900 gp to make - a bit less than half price. If a third discount was applied, it would be reduced to 3,430 gp - a bit more than 1/3 normal price. This, in fact, suggests that you should consider it more along the line of: 1 discount (30%), 2 discounts (50%), 3 discounts (67%). It is quite close to accurate, in terms of multiplication.
I would also consider limiting discounts to a maximum of three (one each for class, alignment, and race), but I would perhaps increase the difficulty of making the item for each discount applied:
1) I would increase the time needed to make the item by double (one discount applied), triple (two discounts applied), or quadruple (three discounts applied) in terms of day. So instead of taking 1 day per 1k gp, it would take 1 day per 500 gp (1 discount), 1 day per 250 gp (2 discounts), or 1 day per 125 gp (3 discounts). This could put a damper on making discount items, if only for the downtime required to make them. Make certain that every now and then you give them adventures with deadlines, and the party will not have the luxury of spending a couple weeks hanging out in that nice town while waiting for the PC to make a discounted item at a lower price.
2) You might also find a way to decrease some of the benefit from the discount. What if applying a discount was like applying a metamagic feat - ie: requiring a higher caster level to make, even though the final benefit is not actually improved as by a caster level increase (other than the discount in production cost, of course).
Perhaps adding one discount (for race, class, or alignment) increases the minimum caster level for creation by +1 (in gp and xp costs and in the actual level needed to make it, but not in the power of the item created)? So that item requiring caster level 7 (and having a " * caster level" in its price guidance) would in fact require caster level 8 to make - but would treated as if the caster level were only 7 in terms of final power, etc of the spell involved. Adding in two discounts increases the required caster level to +2, and adding in all three discounts increases it to +3 (+4?).
The cost increase does not completely (or even significantly) reduce the benefit of the price reduction, but the required higher level to make it - and the increased time to make it, if you use my first suggestion as well - can put a bit of a damper on how often this idea is used. And while the reduction in cost is not significantly lessened, it will reduce (by at least a few %) the actual degree of reduction. A wand, for instance, would be increased in price by "375 * spell level" per caster level increase (before the deduction for specializing is taken into consideration).
Also, you could say that it decreases the gp costs but not the xp costs.
And, of course, the resale value is similarly reduced, further limiting the usefulness of the item once the PC / party no longer have a need for it.
An example:
A wand of fireball typical requires a minimum of Wiz 5 to make, costing 375 gp * 3 (spell level) * 5 (min caster level) to make - for a total of 5625 gp and 450 xp in final costs. Requiring 1 day per 1k gp to make, this wand will take a minimum of 5 days to make.
Under the guidelines above, if two discounts were to be applied (say, only halfling rogues could use it), then it would be 375 * 3 (spell level) * 7 (caster level), for a total of 7875 gp and 630 xp. But then we apply the discount (~50% for two discounts), for a total of merely 3937 gp (and either 630 xp or 315 xp, depending on whether xp is also discounted). Also, this will take about 8 days to make - and it will still only produce caster level 5 fireballs.
So he gains an additional three days of work and a final discount of only 30% for 2 specialization discounts.
Other notable examples:
Enhancement bonuses on weapons and armor require a higher level before they can be made (4th instead of 3rd for +1 enhancement, 5th instead of 3rd for +2 enhancement, etc). Most wondrous items lack a caster level multiplication in their cost, but all of them have minimum caster levels for construction; all of those minimum CLs have increased by +1 for one discount, +2 for two discounts, etc. And the days required to make them are significantly increased. A pair of Gloves of Dexterity +4, for example, would require not 16 days to make but instead 32 days (for 1 discount), 64 (for 2 discounts), etc.
Do any of these ideas help any?
However, I would not add the discounts together. I would multiply them, thus reducing the final actual discount. For an example: An item costs 10,000 gp to make. After the 30% discount it costs 7,000 gp to make. After another 30% discount it costs 4,900 gp to make - a bit less than half price. If a third discount was applied, it would be reduced to 3,430 gp - a bit more than 1/3 normal price. This, in fact, suggests that you should consider it more along the line of: 1 discount (30%), 2 discounts (50%), 3 discounts (67%). It is quite close to accurate, in terms of multiplication.
I would also consider limiting discounts to a maximum of three (one each for class, alignment, and race), but I would perhaps increase the difficulty of making the item for each discount applied:
1) I would increase the time needed to make the item by double (one discount applied), triple (two discounts applied), or quadruple (three discounts applied) in terms of day. So instead of taking 1 day per 1k gp, it would take 1 day per 500 gp (1 discount), 1 day per 250 gp (2 discounts), or 1 day per 125 gp (3 discounts). This could put a damper on making discount items, if only for the downtime required to make them. Make certain that every now and then you give them adventures with deadlines, and the party will not have the luxury of spending a couple weeks hanging out in that nice town while waiting for the PC to make a discounted item at a lower price.
2) You might also find a way to decrease some of the benefit from the discount. What if applying a discount was like applying a metamagic feat - ie: requiring a higher caster level to make, even though the final benefit is not actually improved as by a caster level increase (other than the discount in production cost, of course).
Perhaps adding one discount (for race, class, or alignment) increases the minimum caster level for creation by +1 (in gp and xp costs and in the actual level needed to make it, but not in the power of the item created)? So that item requiring caster level 7 (and having a " * caster level" in its price guidance) would in fact require caster level 8 to make - but would treated as if the caster level were only 7 in terms of final power, etc of the spell involved. Adding in two discounts increases the required caster level to +2, and adding in all three discounts increases it to +3 (+4?).
The cost increase does not completely (or even significantly) reduce the benefit of the price reduction, but the required higher level to make it - and the increased time to make it, if you use my first suggestion as well - can put a bit of a damper on how often this idea is used. And while the reduction in cost is not significantly lessened, it will reduce (by at least a few %) the actual degree of reduction. A wand, for instance, would be increased in price by "375 * spell level" per caster level increase (before the deduction for specializing is taken into consideration).
Also, you could say that it decreases the gp costs but not the xp costs.
And, of course, the resale value is similarly reduced, further limiting the usefulness of the item once the PC / party no longer have a need for it.
An example:
A wand of fireball typical requires a minimum of Wiz 5 to make, costing 375 gp * 3 (spell level) * 5 (min caster level) to make - for a total of 5625 gp and 450 xp in final costs. Requiring 1 day per 1k gp to make, this wand will take a minimum of 5 days to make.
Under the guidelines above, if two discounts were to be applied (say, only halfling rogues could use it), then it would be 375 * 3 (spell level) * 7 (caster level), for a total of 7875 gp and 630 xp. But then we apply the discount (~50% for two discounts), for a total of merely 3937 gp (and either 630 xp or 315 xp, depending on whether xp is also discounted). Also, this will take about 8 days to make - and it will still only produce caster level 5 fireballs.
So he gains an additional three days of work and a final discount of only 30% for 2 specialization discounts.
Other notable examples:
Enhancement bonuses on weapons and armor require a higher level before they can be made (4th instead of 3rd for +1 enhancement, 5th instead of 3rd for +2 enhancement, etc). Most wondrous items lack a caster level multiplication in their cost, but all of them have minimum caster levels for construction; all of those minimum CLs have increased by +1 for one discount, +2 for two discounts, etc. And the days required to make them are significantly increased. A pair of Gloves of Dexterity +4, for example, would require not 16 days to make but instead 32 days (for 1 discount), 64 (for 2 discounts), etc.
Do any of these ideas help any?
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