Light Knight
First Post
Werent their brains gone?
Besides, thats a small detail...and the effect is about the same..
-
Monstrous Menagerie II: Hordes & Heroes has a launch date! Mark your calendars for November 12th, 2024. 300+ more monsters for your D&D 2024, or Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition games, plus new horde rules and rules for heroic monsters who level up alongside you--whether they be allies, companions, or foes! Click here to follow on Kickstarter!
Is This Unbalanced?
- Thread starter Samloyal23
- Start date
Werent their brains gone?
Besides, thats a small detail...and the effect is about the same..
Loren Pechtel
Explorer
How about a different take on this:
Eat the Soul:
By eating murdered victim's brain you gain some of his knowledge and power.
If their Int, Wis or Cha is higher than yours you get theirs for 24 hours.
Mental skills work likewise. Physical skills only grant you 1/2 of the difference.
At the end of the 24 hours you can choose to try to keep some of their knowledge. Choose only one feature to try to retain.
An attempt to gain a mental stat costs 1000xp and it's chance of success is 10% per point of difference. Success grants a +1 to the stat and increases the cost of future attempts to gain that stat by 500xp.
An attempt to gain a skill works the same but the costs are 100xp and 50xp.
You can only get a feat if you meet the prerequisites. The cost is 500xp and you must do it three times before you actually gain the feat.
You can choose to try to acquire a spell that you would otherwise be able to cast. If you're a prepared caster the cost is 25xp per spell level, success is automatic and lets you record the spell in your spellbook. If you're a spontaneous caster the cost is 100xp per spell level, success is automatic and the gained spell is added to the spells you can cast.
You can also choose a spell you can't cast. This costs 100xp per level squared and gives you a spell-like ability of using it 1/day. The caster level is limited by both the subject's level and your score in the relevant stat (stat * 2 - 19). A spell reduced below it's minimum level is still useable assuming it has level dependent effects but some spells will be reduced to uselessness.
If the victim you select suffers from any type of mental condition or illness, such a geas, charm, or insanity, you automatically contract it, whether permanent or temporary.
Eat the Soul:
By eating murdered victim's brain you gain some of his knowledge and power.
If their Int, Wis or Cha is higher than yours you get theirs for 24 hours.
Mental skills work likewise. Physical skills only grant you 1/2 of the difference.
At the end of the 24 hours you can choose to try to keep some of their knowledge. Choose only one feature to try to retain.
An attempt to gain a mental stat costs 1000xp and it's chance of success is 10% per point of difference. Success grants a +1 to the stat and increases the cost of future attempts to gain that stat by 500xp.
An attempt to gain a skill works the same but the costs are 100xp and 50xp.
You can only get a feat if you meet the prerequisites. The cost is 500xp and you must do it three times before you actually gain the feat.
You can choose to try to acquire a spell that you would otherwise be able to cast. If you're a prepared caster the cost is 25xp per spell level, success is automatic and lets you record the spell in your spellbook. If you're a spontaneous caster the cost is 100xp per spell level, success is automatic and the gained spell is added to the spells you can cast.
You can also choose a spell you can't cast. This costs 100xp per level squared and gives you a spell-like ability of using it 1/day. The caster level is limited by both the subject's level and your score in the relevant stat (stat * 2 - 19). A spell reduced below it's minimum level is still useable assuming it has level dependent effects but some spells will be reduced to uselessness.
If the victim you select suffers from any type of mental condition or illness, such a geas, charm, or insanity, you automatically contract it, whether permanent or temporary.
the Jester
Legend
This part is extremely problematic.
Consider: I have this ability and have a high Int, but my Wis is 8 and my Cha is 9.
I eat the brain of a monster with an Int inferior to mine but a Wis 18 and Cha 25.
I've just gained a +10 (untyped, no less!) bonus to Wis and a +16 bonus to Cha for 24 hours. This is waaaaay beyond any other non-epic bonus I'm aware of. Total dealbreaker.
Yeah... This is one of those problems 'in the box' that really don't come into play. Ever.
But, for the sake of argument, let us say that you have a player who for some reason gets to eat their victims brains. Like some sort of Dahmermage they go about, mixing brain cocktails, swilling it, then adding their champagne to the campaign.
There is no fear of imbalance with permanent bonuses. That's why we have named bonuses. You're giving them an option to have an extra Magic Item... In a mental skill that is less likely to help the user.
If the PrC is made for a Mage the player is going to seek out someone with higher Int... And they're going to find, well, something that is going to be difficult for most to kill unless your Mage is a dullard. Same thing for Cleric and Sorcerers. And there is the problem with the brain.. Why would you allow the character to eat a non-humanoid brain and gain powers? Also, a melee type is going to get what benefit out of any size bump in their mental skills that is commensurate with the benefits of other classes.
+2, +4, +6 based on level for 'brain eating'. The individual can eat 3 brains for their three physical stats. The powers of such sarcomancy is going to be an Enhancement bonus. You're looking at an unslotted item that can be included in the player's share of the treasure, removing the issue of $ imbalance.
The rituals required take 1, 2, and 3 days for each bonus, and the individual cannot have an injured brain. That means no beatings by the party melee specialist, no electrical damage, no criticals... nice, delicious, nutritious brains. No preservation either!
Adding skills? That's a bit easier, but there are going to be limits. Trophies would be good here, and generate some good little objects. The thief's fingerbones made into caps so you 'feel' traps, the eye of a master appraiser. There are rules for skill-boost items out there that cover this ad nauseum
Feats and spells? Feats
are the hardest to emulate because there are so many items that grant feats at so many different costs. Alertness will cost you 10k, but Improved Sunder/Critical are +1 bonuses on top of weapons, while Spell Penetration (and a stackable version!) will only cost you 8k?
Spells usable once/day, and you have to be able to cast the thing. Oh, and also you're going to be limited as the original caster would be. So if you're taking that Fireball you best have a 13 Int... Oh, and you also need to be out of your armor to do it, or using an armor that allays that loss of spellcraft proficiency (as the memory comes from the original user it would be trained to that user, so unless they have an Armored Casting ability it doesn't make much sense that you can get away with it).
Yes, you can go about creating a bunch of sarcomantic items. That's alright... Gain all the castings you want, at once/day. But to really take benefit you need to attack someone who can CAST them, maintain the body in a state where it is usable, and be the one to make the kill in a ritualistic way if you're keeping the flavor. Be my guest in capturing, binding, and cutting the Archmage's head open for his spells. But you get one, as a 1/day SLA, bound by the rules of the game. It's not even as good as a regular item, and it's going to cause you some issues.
---
Personally I don't like the tone for a PC PrC and think an NPC should be allowed to do as he will. The problems of sarcomancy can be seen in Mako, the Hellblazer villain with the same shtick. Yeah, killing hedge mages gives you a lot of little stuff, and I'm glad you've filled out your brainbook with a bunch of tricks and tips.. But you're going to want to go after the Big One, and all you really are are a bunch of apprentices Voltron'd together. A better path would be using similar flavoring in the form of a Chameleon PrC that does allow you to get... a bit more into character.
Now for a villain? Not a horrible idea, and allows you to really go for the gusto. The setbacks aren't needed here, and as someone who doesn't really need to follow the rules of PC creation you have a nice little path to go on. Having a bunch of abilities is only really useful if you're going to be around for more than an adventure, but the abilities you could have... And the grief you could cause...
Slainte,
-Loonook.
EDIT: Also, the idea of farming intelligent monsters... yes, because as we know the cost of intelligent monsters is not too high, given you need to enslave them, have at least two of breeding age, and get them to breed so you can eat their children. Also, a salted brain just doesn't do it for sarcomancy.
But, for the sake of argument, let us say that you have a player who for some reason gets to eat their victims brains. Like some sort of Dahmermage they go about, mixing brain cocktails, swilling it, then adding their champagne to the campaign.
There is no fear of imbalance with permanent bonuses. That's why we have named bonuses. You're giving them an option to have an extra Magic Item... In a mental skill that is less likely to help the user.
If the PrC is made for a Mage the player is going to seek out someone with higher Int... And they're going to find, well, something that is going to be difficult for most to kill unless your Mage is a dullard. Same thing for Cleric and Sorcerers. And there is the problem with the brain.. Why would you allow the character to eat a non-humanoid brain and gain powers? Also, a melee type is going to get what benefit out of any size bump in their mental skills that is commensurate with the benefits of other classes.
+2, +4, +6 based on level for 'brain eating'. The individual can eat 3 brains for their three physical stats. The powers of such sarcomancy is going to be an Enhancement bonus. You're looking at an unslotted item that can be included in the player's share of the treasure, removing the issue of $ imbalance.
The rituals required take 1, 2, and 3 days for each bonus, and the individual cannot have an injured brain. That means no beatings by the party melee specialist, no electrical damage, no criticals... nice, delicious, nutritious brains. No preservation either!
Adding skills? That's a bit easier, but there are going to be limits. Trophies would be good here, and generate some good little objects. The thief's fingerbones made into caps so you 'feel' traps, the eye of a master appraiser. There are rules for skill-boost items out there that cover this ad nauseum
Feats and spells? Feats
are the hardest to emulate because there are so many items that grant feats at so many different costs. Alertness will cost you 10k, but Improved Sunder/Critical are +1 bonuses on top of weapons, while Spell Penetration (and a stackable version!) will only cost you 8k?
Spells usable once/day, and you have to be able to cast the thing. Oh, and also you're going to be limited as the original caster would be. So if you're taking that Fireball you best have a 13 Int... Oh, and you also need to be out of your armor to do it, or using an armor that allays that loss of spellcraft proficiency (as the memory comes from the original user it would be trained to that user, so unless they have an Armored Casting ability it doesn't make much sense that you can get away with it).
Yes, you can go about creating a bunch of sarcomantic items. That's alright... Gain all the castings you want, at once/day. But to really take benefit you need to attack someone who can CAST them, maintain the body in a state where it is usable, and be the one to make the kill in a ritualistic way if you're keeping the flavor. Be my guest in capturing, binding, and cutting the Archmage's head open for his spells. But you get one, as a 1/day SLA, bound by the rules of the game. It's not even as good as a regular item, and it's going to cause you some issues.
---
Personally I don't like the tone for a PC PrC and think an NPC should be allowed to do as he will. The problems of sarcomancy can be seen in Mako, the Hellblazer villain with the same shtick. Yeah, killing hedge mages gives you a lot of little stuff, and I'm glad you've filled out your brainbook with a bunch of tricks and tips.. But you're going to want to go after the Big One, and all you really are are a bunch of apprentices Voltron'd together. A better path would be using similar flavoring in the form of a Chameleon PrC that does allow you to get... a bit more into character
.Now for a villain? Not a horrible idea, and allows you to really go for the gusto. The setbacks aren't needed here, and as someone who doesn't really need to follow the rules of PC creation you have a nice little path to go on. Having a bunch of abilities is only really useful if you're going to be around for more than an adventure, but the abilities you could have... And the grief you could cause...
Slainte,
-Loonook.
EDIT: Also, the idea of farming intelligent monsters... yes, because as we know the cost of intelligent monsters is not too high, given you need to enslave them, have at least two of breeding age, and get them to breed so you can eat their children. Also, a salted brain just doesn't do it for sarcomancy.
Noumenon
First Post
I had the idea of a barbarian (or a druid about to cast awaken) eating high Wisdom monsters to gain a will save, but it appears that isn't a problem. I thought since Str varies up to 35 there must be Wis 35 monsters also, but all the ones I checked (even Wis-dependent monsters like dryads and ghaeles) had Wisdom no higher than 17.
As others have said this could be unbalanced if you let unlimited skill growth. However, a creature in "Monsters of Faerun" has an ability that works very similar to this: the Greater Doppleganger. If you are the DM you could use savage species to create a level progression for greater doppleganger (or use the abilty given there, have the PC 'chang' into a doppelganger via a prestige class, etc.)). This is a very powerful race though, so you may have to use discretion when writing up the monster class/prestige class (maybe dont let then be able to absorb so many peoples identities).
Samloyal23
Adventurer
This class has similar abilities for other attributes and was designed to be a bit provocative. Interesting ideas for balancing it, all I had was a rough idea, going to be working on this for a while to get it right. Any thoughts about a maximum bonus cap?
