Is Wisdom the real dump stat?

[Evilhalfling]

I dont consider wis really a dump stat but would never put more than a 12 unless playing a div caster. Chr is a dumpstat for many characters but there are lots of non casting builds I would play or design that need a higher chr. (by dump stat I mean more than willing to drop to 8 and would conisder lower.

Wis penalties will Hurt you personally, while low Chr can be compensated by allowing a 'Face'
to do negoiations whenver possible.

 

[Creamsteak]

My current Ranger has a 16 wisdom. I've found it a bit more "fun" to have the ranger with the high wisdom and only moderate dexterity. The character is actually good at the things the party depends on him for, and not so much at tearing people up with two-weapon fighting. Of course, I also took toughness, so YMMV.

 

[argo]

There is no such thing as a dump stat. The concept is like bigfoot or something; everybody talks abut it but all you ever see of it is some grainy home viedo on a cheap TV show hosted by Lenord Nemoy.

Each character concept will have different priorities for its stat distribution and sometimes it can even be fun to pruposely drop a stat to give your character some character. But no stat is ingsignificant enough to label it an all-purpose "dump stat". Even the conventional wisdom that Cha is the dump stat of choice is based on the assumption that the default game setting is a combat-heavy dungeon.

Later.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Wis penalties will Hurt you personally, while low Chr can be compensated by allowing a 'Face' to do negoiations whenver possible.

Yep. A fighter with low Charisma isn't going to hurt the party or himself.

Brad

 

[Pinotage]

Wisdom is an extremely useful stat to have at low levels, as that extra +1 or +2 Will save is important. At low levels the Will Save dominates the combat encounter far more than Reflex or Fort Saves. Spells like Command, Cause Fear, Santuary, Sleep, Charm Person, Hold Person and numerous others can take a character out of the fight easily and quickly, generally for several rounds. That's a lot worse than taking a few hp damage that can easily be healed, as you can't 'heal' Command, Sleep or Charm person. It's not the same for reflex and fortitude saves. At low levels there's no save or die, or massive damage spells that require reflex saves. I'd say Wisdom is vitally important for a fighter at low levels.

Pinotage

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

The dump stat would have to depend on the class. Clerics won't see Wis as worthy of dump status. But a Wizard probably does not put a lot of value into Str (and many, by the look of things feel the same way about Cha). Failing Will saves can have disastrous effects. Ref saves, for instance, is often take full or take half.

 

[MerricB]

With skills like Listen and Spot, you need at least one character in the party who has good scores. Beyond that, you don't need everyone to be good at it

You haven't played in many games where Listen and Spot are actually used, have you?

Standard encounter:
DM: "Everyone make Spot checks. DC 20"
Players: some make checks, some fail.
DM: "Right - everyone who failed is surprised..."

Cheers!

 

[jmucchiello]

Fighter: Str, Con, Wis, Dex, Int, Cha
Cleric: Wis, Str, Con, Cha, Dex, Int
Rogue: Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha, Str
Wizard: Int, Con, Dex, Wis, Cha, Str

I'm surprised this didn't get any other comments. I disagree with the Rogue and Cleric:

Cleric: Wis, Con, Str, Cha, Dex, Int
Rogue: Int, Dex, Con, Cha, Wis, Str
OR
Rogue: Int, Cha, Con, Dex, Wis, Str

 

[Tessarael]

Standard encounter:
DM: "Everyone make Spot checks. DC 20"
Players: some make checks, some fail.
DM: "Right - everyone who failed is surprised..."

Well, that happens sometimes of course. However, often the Rogue spots encounters before they happen, which puts the monsters on the receiving end and we aren't the ones making Spot checks. It also depends on the encounter distance - in dungeons, it will generally be short, hence this is an issue. Outdoors, it will often be distant enough that it is not really a surprise issue, unless you want to open fire at long range.

 

[Saeviomagy]

You haven't played in many games where Listen and Spot are actually used, have you?

Standard encounter:
DM: "Everyone make Spot checks. DC 20"
Players: some make checks, some fail.
DM: "Right - everyone who failed is surprised..."

If you're a barbarian, the surprise round doesn't mean a whole lot, because you've got uncanny dodge, and you couldn't get out of the way before (say) the casters anyway - you'd leave them exposed.

If you're a fighter, your dex mod is probably less important to your ac. Again you can't get out of the way. Again you get minimal bonuses from having a high wis.

If you're EITHER, you don't have spot as a class skill, so chances are that anything hiding will jump you anyway. A dc of 20 is pretty low for an ambushing monster.