Is WOTC falling into a problem like the old TSR did

[Hussar]

I think it's a shame that D&D is treated like a business rather than like a hobby. It's too bad that WotC won't do something like this:

1. Release D&D 4th edition in a single 128-page book. Obviously the game would be very streamlined. Make sure the book would be understandable to an adult who had never played any RPGs.

2. Let any one publish anything that could be used with D&D as long as the product made clear that the rulebook mentioned above was necessary for using the product. I'm talking carte blanche here: mind flayers, displacer beasts, you name it. Nothing taboo.

And that's it. Let fans drive the hobby, and let WotC just publish a slender volume of rules and get out of the way.

The unfortunate truth is that 99% of the fan written stuff is garbage. A trot through the net books shows that. Yes, there is some great stuff out there, but, it's buried under mounds of poorly written, edited and questionably play tested material.

I'd much rather have a game written by professional writers, with professional artwork and cartography, than fan written stuff any day.

Heck, with the SRD, 99% of D&D is available anyway. Look what happened when 3e hit at first. Publishers were cranking out some of the most unbelievably poorly written crap I'd ever seen. ((AEG's Evil - I'm looking at you - typoes of "ores" for "orcs" throughout the book)) Hand the game over to fan writing? Gack. No thanks.

 

[Votan]

Rules bloat is a definite problem. I look at my bookshelf and I own 33 separate 3.5 edition D&D books. I am not a completionist by any stretch of the imagination. But I cannot carry 33 books (physically) to each gaming session nor can I easily figure out the ways in which these rules all interact.

Some stuff is unquestionably cool; but other stuff is badly written or hard to figure out. As a result, I find that I am using much less of the system than I otherwsie would.

 

[Ghendar]

People say that - but I don't know how many people actually learned to play that way.

Well, I can tell you I did. I had no one immediately to game with but I was fascinated enough about D&D to pick up that Red Box set and read it. Then, when school started in the fall I got together with some friends and we started up a game.

The best way is, and always has been, to have a person teach you the game, rather than a book. I think very few RPGs stand well as a "pick it up, read it, and learn to play" thing. Given that social interaction is a major aspect of tabletop play, I think social interaction is the best gateway.

I agree. Learning it from a book (as I did) is not the best way to go.

 

[Ghendar]

I take it you do not own the Complete Necromancer, then?

It is not even close to Complete Warrior in format. It's a bit more like Libris Mortis. It had a mini-setting/adventure site, and rules for a variety of necromantic characters, not just those of the Necromancer specialist class, but including clerics and creature types.

Complete Necromancer is still (imo) one of the best things TSR released for 2nd Ed.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

One other big thing about (most) 3e books is how broad they are.

Complete Warrior helps all classes, although it helps warrior-types more, of course.

This is a big change from "The complete Necromancer" which looked only at a specialist class!

This is not to say that the supplements aid absolutely every PC, but they're not so limited in scope.

Cheers!

Well, in all fairness, The Complete Necromancer also helped clerics, and any wizard could cast the spells. And it had some al-quadim content. That alone rocked my face. I'd certainly put it at the top of the 2nd edition splats, and based on its resale value, others agree.

However, I very much agree with your point in general. I just had to stick up for a great supplement.

 

[JVisgaitis]

I am loath to break in another round of designers like we did in 3.0, when the designers learn to write for the system. I am loath to watch WOTC struggle through a round of bad initial products like the splat books in 3.0.

I don't think we'll have these problems. WotC is a smart company. They learn from their mistakes, plus the issues with 3.0 was WotC getting accustomed to doing support for D&D in the first place. All things to worry about, but I think they've learned and they'll do a lot better.

From all the rumors, a 4e will be more miniature intense and have smaller rules packets, which frankly sounds like it is going the Warhammer route, and I think fans will not be receptive to it.

Rumors are just that and I doubt you'll see smaller rules packets. They'll never go that route. There new model is probably going to be selling subscriptions to their online software which is fine if it helps speed up gameplay. I doubt you'll see any deviating from the 3 core book format.

 

[Ranger REG]

I think it's a shame that D&D is treated like a business rather than like a hobby.

Meh. For every hobbies, there is a business that provides for them. What more enterprising way to make money off for someone to have for their leisure time, be it RPG or videogames.

You just have to remember, companies like WotC always cater to the majority of their customers (more customers = more money). That means those who want something different may not get what they wanted (unless you can convince the majority that they want it also).

 

[teitan]

I recall TSR releasing FAR, FAR more for 2e than WOTC has released for 3e or will ever release for 3e. All the campaign settings for example had a lot of sourcebooks and went on for years and we would have 3-4 releases a month. There was a boxed set almost every month for a time, especially for Planescape and the Realms. WOTC seems to be more selective in what they are doing and balancing it out.

J

 

[Psion]

Complete Necromancer is still (imo) one of the best things TSR released for 2nd Ed.

I would have to agree. It's one of a few 2e products that still remain useful to me to this day, on my "special" old product shelf.

 

[Jim Hague]

Or to let RPGs be a "by the hobbyist, for the hobbyist" thing. Really, that doesn't sound that terrible, to me.

Bad idea. One, it further fragments an already fragmented customer base. Two, smaller profit margins mean fewer products, which means ever diminishing returns for publishers. Three, it reduces the chances of producing an introductory RPG to the mainstream to precisely zero - and no new blood means the hobby dies a death by inches.

No thanks. I'm not particularly fond of WotC, but these nostaglia-based anti-3e threads are becoming...annoying. Why don't the posters simply be honest and say that they prefer previous editions or games instead? Save the rest of us a headache, why don'tcha.