Is WOTC falling into a problem like the old TSR did

[Jim Hague]

Why are you not particularly fond of WotC?

Honestly? Rules bloat, which is a taste thing, and what I feel is the wildly varying quality of their products, also taste. For every Heroes of Horror, you get two or three books of lesser quality, like MMIV.

I was ecstatic when PHB II hit the shelves, and it seemed all the better for the sub-par material released around the same time. The rules-focused (and market driven) bent WotC has bugs me a bit. That's my take. I'd much rather see supplementary material for settings, but we all know that doesn't sell as well.

 

[Jim Hague]

The laws of supply and demand are not optional.

I'm all in favor of game publishers / writers making every penny they can from it.
But me being in favor of it has no bearing.

If I could make my current salary writing games instead of what I do, then I'd switch in a heartbeat. Of course, so would 10,000 other people. Which would flood the supply and crash the compensation and I'd promptly quit that and come back to making money doing what I do now.

Games have pretty much always been made by people who are pretty much hobbyists. In a few cases good business people have a group of hobbyists working for them and this CAN go well. But these also become the examples of "sell outs" (strong emphasis on the quotes). I guess there are also examples like people who started out as hobbyists and quit playing but still do the work they know, but that is a pretty small group.

The bottom line is that the system we have now has worked for a long time and will continue to work. After accounting for cycles, it isn't going to improve a lot, and it isn't going to get much worse. Compensation is a combination of many things, and pay is the big one, but satisfaction with what you do is another. And that piece will always play a big role in keeping the game production industry flowing. Don't expect the balance to change a large amount any time soon.

Except that the current three-tier distribution system (to name a particular culprit) isn't working. It's too expensive for small publishers, to inefficent for big ones, and when a distributor lights out in the middle of the night, as no less than two have in the past 4-5 years, it leaves companies financially devastated. So on that leg alone, the current system isn't working. Shall we add in the same hobbyists insisting on books priced far below what they should cost further eating into profit margins?

Sorry, but no. Status quo isn't going to benefit gamers or producers.

 

[3catcircus]

The thing to understand is that you really can't glibly separate the business from the hobby aspect. If people can't make enough money at it, you, as a gamer, will not see useful products. Period.

We are usually quick to say, "Well, all I really need is my imagination!" If that were really true, though, we wouln't care what other things WotC produced - we'd get the core rules, and walk away. Our behavior puts a lie to the statement. Overall, our continued fun at the hobby is strongly connected to the health of the business.

I think that this is going to become less and less true as the game becomes more oriented to/dependent upon computers.

An analogy to "free" products for RPGs is all of the freeware stuff for Microsoft Flight Simulator. People spent thousands of hours not only creating new airplanes, scenery, etc., but also the tools to allow themselves and others to create those new add-ons in the first place. All without selling anything. Many of the flightsim enthusiasts have purchased only the "core rules" (i.e. the Flight Simulator program) and walked away - only using freeware add-ons, while others have purchased shareware or payware add-ons.

 

[rgard]

I am wondering if WOTC is falling into a sort of problem that TSR did. Back in the 2nd edition version of D&D it was settings. Tons of settings and accessories was very bad for the market. With 3.x currently I am seeing an avalanche of feats, prestige classes, does not look like it is stopping anytime soon.

Along with all of the feats and prestige classes, we have

alternative class abilities
Tricks (complete scoundrel)
systems like Incarnum, Pact Magic, Book of 9 swords etc.....

All of these things are fine by themselves but when mixed with others from different books, things can break down really fast.

In my mind choice is good, but too many choices can be a headache.

Thoughts

No.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

books priced far below what they should cost

I think this is where that view could be wrong.

The market decides what books should cost.

 

[3catcircus]

Except that the current three-tier distribution system (to name a particular culprit) isn't working. It's too expensive for small publishers, to inefficent for big ones, and when a distributor lights out in the middle of the night, as no less than two have in the past 4-5 years, it leaves companies financially devastated. So on that leg alone, the current system isn't working. Shall we add in the same hobbyists insisting on books priced far below what they should cost further eating into profit margins?

Sorry, but no. Status quo isn't going to benefit gamers or producers.

Hmm - far below what they should cost is dependent upon the distribution and production model in use, no? Artwork, nice layout, quality paper, etc. all cost money. PDFs eliminate the printing costs, as well as the costs of shipping materiel product through a distributor.

People have a gut feeling on what a product "should" cost and what is fair. Hardcover of Complete Warrior - priced fairly. PDF of Complete Warrior for the same exact price? No way.

The standard model oughta be dependent upon media used: PDF priced dependent upon layout (i.e. is it just a distillation of a MS Word document, or is it a tagged, searchable, editable PDF with lots of artwork?), with PoD and various choices for paper weight, binding, etc. being rolled into the final price for the consumer that costs more than the PDF.

 

[ssampier]

...
Of course, if I were in the business, making RPGs mainstream would definitely be a goal so my company could make more money. But I'm not. I'm looking at it solely as a gamer.

Healthy company making products, more gamers = good
broke company, no gamers = bad

As a gamer, how could this be good? Yes, people do play out-of-print products, but it is a very small percentage of the overall total. I'd rather D&D become the niche of a niche, thank you.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Healthy company making products, more gamers = good
broke company, no gamers = bad

As a gamer, how could this be good?

If those were the only choices, I'd agree with you. However, as I said before, I don't believe a smaller/hobbyist market equates to "broke company/no games."

 

[Hussar]

I don't think it's all-or-nothing. Fewer products, certainly. No useful products? Sorry, I just don't buy it. A smaller, more hobbyist market isn't doomed to death. Again, I cite the wargame market. It's smaller than it used to be, and there's no Avalon Hill out there right now. But there are a LOT of really great wargames that are being produced.

Smaller? I'm not entirely convinced on that score. The board game market has absolutely exploded in the past three or four years. Granted, that's board games across various genre, but, still, I'm thinking that wargaming isn't exactly small. While you might not have a 600 pound gorilla in the market, that doesn't mean that it's a small market being dominated by cottage industries.

Put me squarely in the camp that wants professional companies releasing D&D products. How anyone could actually long for the days of fan written material is beyond me. For every Tegel Manor, to name a good example, you have hundreds of pages of crap. Poorly editted, poorly tested, and ugly to boot.

No thanks. I'll stick with "slick" books for my dollar.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Smaller? I'm not entirely convinced on that score. The board game market has absolutely exploded in the past three or four years. Granted, that's board games across various genre, but, still, I'm thinking that wargaming isn't exactly small.

Euro/light-strategy games have exploded, but I don't think the wargame/conflict-sim market is as big as it used to be. I don't have any numbers -- that's just a guess, really. Nevertheless, I think it's safe to say the wargame market is way out of the mainstream (i.e. essentially hobbyist), and small compared to other game markets.

Put me squarely in the camp that wants professional companies releasing D&D products. How anyone could actually long for the days of fan written material is beyond me.

I don't think smaller and hobbyist auotmatically equates to "unprofessional," either. I don't have a problem with quality production values, etc. You can still have professional companies that serve a small market. Would it be exactly the same as now? Obviously, not. But the death of RPGs, with the sky-falling and nothing but crap being produced? I don't think so.