Is WotC playing 4d Chess with the 5.1 SRD CC?

[Umbran]

It was released as part of the Divine Sense paladin ability, in its description.

Huh. Learn something new every day.

 

[ValamirCleaver]

New Coke debacle

Here's a very interesting read in reference to that : New Coke didn't fail. It was murdered.

 

[Malmuria]

For pity's sake - it isn't like we gave them any TIME to think it through, now did we? We put them under time pressure, and then we complain that they didn't take time to think things through?

I guess there's no pleasing some people.

The whole situation was entirely of their own making. If it's the case that they accidentally put Strahd under CC because they were in a rush to make this change (even though no one expected to put the SRD under CC), that's a pretty huge blunder, and it speaks to some incompetence and lack of communication. I also find the idea that they were unjustly put under time pressure to be ironic, since they were initially going to give 3rd pp one week to accept the new OGL.

 

[Parmandur]

Here's a very interesting read in reference to that : New Coke didn't fail. It was murdered.

Wow, the parallels to D&D shenanigans seem pretty strong.

 

[Dausuul]

While there are undoubtedly multiple factions, I'm not sure any of them are doing particularly great. Even this move to the CC license seems ill thought through - I find it hard to believe they would have released Strahd into the wild if they'd thought it through properly.

What that suggests to me is that the pro-OGL faction cared more about locking in its gains than about protecting a handful of names.

That would be consistent with the idea that the pro-OGL faction is driven by people lower in the hierarchy. They do not normally have the opportunity to shape this kind of policy. When they got that opportunity, they seized it before it could slip away.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

IANAL, though I see two possible strategies that might be at work here:

First, they split the party. Most of the power in the recent revolt came from the number of 5e players that joined in. Releasing the 5.1 SRD in CC, may defuse this contingent, leaving only Pathfinder, OSR, indie RPGs, etc. and their fans.

Second, if 5e content creators move to the 5.1 SRD, the tapestry of open game content that hand from the OGL 1.0a starts to unravel. ORC and other licenses, as well-meaning as they are, maybe playing into this, helping to accelerate the unraveling. Look at an OGL statement in the back of your favorite TTRPG or product and see the long list of copyright holders and IP the work relies on, this is the tapestry of open game content that content creators and designers have been weaving for the last 20+ years, and is a huge part of what makes the OGL 1.0a so dear.

There may be more that our lawyer friends or those more experienced with the OGL may be able to point out.

The answer to all 4D chess questions not involving Spock is the same:

No.

There has literally never been a case where someone said "X is playing 4D chess" where they turned out to be right, and literally thousands, maybe millions of cases where they were wrong.

You're confusing "4D chess" with extremely basic and slightly desperate attempts to minimize damage.

 

[Vaalingrade]

4D Chess is when you screw up royal while having a fandom.

 

[darjr]

Wow, the parallels to D&D shenanigans seem pretty strong.

Eh. As some have noted elsewhere new Coke was also decidedly not liked by a ton of people. Me and my mom especially.

 

[billd91]

Here's a very interesting read in reference to that : New Coke didn't fail. It was murdered.

I can't say I'm convinced. Normally, I kind of like Mother Jones, but their thesis that it was murdered is kind of built on an anecdote that I think they're blowing out of proportion.

There was definitely an issue with brand strength and identification with that brand, which meant that Coke's marketing for New Coke ended up in competition with their old marketing successes. They somehow had to push this new formulation while still tying it to Coke's timelessness, nostalgia, and the mystique of its 'secret formula'. They'd even sold Coke syrup as a home remedy for nausea for decades before trying to switch to New Coke. So, yeah, they faced a backlash that may have started as a smaller, hard core, but it was the more persuasive sentiment in the end.

Lesson to take away: be careful with any identification with the brand you try to generate with your marketing - it may prove stronger than your ability to change it.

 

[Parmandur]

Eh. As some have noted elsewhere new Coke was also decidedly not liked by a ton of people. Me and my mom especially.

Never tasted the stuff, I spent the entire controversy in my mother's womb. But the parallels as described to the events around 4E and it's rollout sure are familiar (speaking as som5who did not care for 4E).

 

[darjr]

Never tasted the stuff, I spent the entire controversy in my mother's womb. But the parallels as described to the events around 4E and it's rollout sure are familiar (speaking as som5who did not care for 4E).

I loved 4e till it’s flaws burned me out. I still can’t really stand it.

 

[billd91]

Never tasted the stuff, I spent the entire controversy in my mother's womb. But the parallels as described to the events around 4E and it's rollout sure are familiar (speaking as som5who did not care for 4E).

Parallels were definitely drawn around here with 4e as well. However you feel about 4e as a game you liked or didn't like, there were substantial groups on both sides that agreed it didn't fit the same groove as prior editions (the disagreement was fundamentally whether that was good or bad). And while 3e also shifted the game onto a more unified/regularized footing, it heavily marketed itself as "Back to the Dungeon!" in an effort to tie closer to the original, Basic, and 1e versions (compared to the setting/story heavy 2e). 4e had to fight against the success of those prior marketing efforts and ended up with a fairly lame "Ze game remains ze same..." In the end, it didn't seem to be very successful at getting people to square the new structures and styles with the old, established identification.

Now, 5e, by contrast, took some of the 4e structure and specifically went back to basics on a number of aspects from magic items no longer being expected power ups to taking advancement off a matched treadmill with things like monster ACs (via bounded accuracy). They also heavily surveyed to get a feel for what people felt were the core traditions and identities of D&D. Put all together, they managed to achieve what 4e couldn't. So if 4e was the New Coke, 5e is more of the Diet Coke success story - extending the identity to a new market (the diet soda drinkers) while doing it with a new formula.

 

[Haplo781]

However you feel about 4e as a game you liked or didn't like, there were substantial groups on both sides that agreed it didn't fit the same groove as prior editions (the disagreement was fundamentally whether that was good or bad).

Yeah basically I know quite a few people who feel like this about it:

 

[Vaalingrade]

The important thing is that people still feel the need to rub it in ten years later.

 

[Blue Orange]

What was the line about New Coke being an attempt to drum up more interest in Coke by making people more attached to Coke Classic? "We're not that smart and we're not that stupid."

Interestingly, when reading about Chinese political maneuverings, there do seem to be examples of people who played 3D chess or at least 'the long game'. There was a fellow named Goujian who pretended to serve King Fuchai of Yue, who had killed his dad a while ago, for three years, even going to the length of tasting his poop to prove his loyalty. He later built an army and killed the king's son.

But in our era of quarterly reports? Nah.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The important thing is that people still feel the need to rub it in ten years later.

My dad still wants to rant about certain ex-presidents and ex-Doctors Who decades later. (Matt Smith can't hurt you any more, Dad.)

 

[Parmandur]

My dad still wants to rant about certain ex-presidents and ex-Doctors Who decades later. (Matt Smith can't hurt you any more, Dad.)

Psychic damage is real damage...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I can't say I'm convinced. Normally, I kind of like Mother Jones, but their thesis that it was murdered is kind of built on an anecdote that I think they're blowing out of proportion.

There was definitely an issue with brand strength and identification with that brand, which meant that Coke's marketing for New Coke ended up in competition with their old marketing successes. They somehow had to push this new formulation while still tying it to Coke's timelessness, nostalgia, and the mystique of its 'secret formula'. They'd even sold Coke syrup as a home remedy for nausea for decades before trying to switch to New Coke. So, yeah, they faced a backlash that may have started as a smaller, hard core, but it was the more persuasive sentiment in the end.

Lesson to take away: be careful with any identification with the brand you try to generate with your marketing - it may prove stronger than your ability to change it.

I think the question was: why not offer both...

 

[billd91]

I think the question was: why not offer both...

At the time, I don't think anybody was sure it was sustainable. Cherry Coke, launched at the same time, was the first non-main Coke other than Diet to prove they could have multiple varieties of sweetened Coke in the market. In the end, they did offer both and New Coke lasted until 2002.

 

[mamba]

IANAL, though I see two possible strategies that might be at work here:

First, they split the party. Most of the power in the recent revolt came from the number of 5e players that joined in. Releasing the 5.1 SRD in CC, may defuse this contingent, leaving only Pathfinder, OSR, indie RPGs, etc. and their fans.

I am not sure they are even playing chess... they did not revoke the OGL, so anyone can still use it just fine. WotC does not really care about the OSR anyway, it simply is too small to matter. Making the SRD 5.1 CC means the only SRD WotC currently cares about cannot be revoked, which in turn means there is no need to revoke the OGL, so anyone using it is safe.