It's not just great... it's PENULTIMATE!

[LightPhoenix]

My big pet peeve word is, by far, "ambivalent." Ambivalent does not mean uncaring - in fact it means quite the opposite! Ambivalent means torn between or fluctuating between two points.

What really got me was that they used it as uncaring in Studio 60 last Monday - and that's supposed to be a "smart" show. Argh.

 

[Pbartender]

My big pet peeve word is, by far, "ambivalent." Ambivalent does not mean uncaring - in fact it means quite the opposite! Ambivalent means torn between or fluctuating between two points.

Or it can also simply mean indecisiveness through general uncertainty... Which many people misconstrue to indecisiveness through lack of concern.

 

[Simplicity]

I think you mean mightier than the swordultimate.

Shush. I know what I mean. Don't make me decimate you.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Or it can also simply mean indecisiveness through general uncertainty... Which many people misconstrue to indecisiveness through lack of concern.

That's the penultimate definition!

 

[reanjr]

But when someone uses 'penultimate' to mean "even more ultimate!" - and it happens, a lot! - does that mean we should accept that what they wanted to say is what matters, even if the word has nothing to do with their intended meaning?

How do you know when someone is using it in that manner? If someone is talking about "The Penultimate Guide to Fighters!!!11!1one!1!eleven" how can you tell from context that they intend to mean more than ultimate?

We know that it means "next to last". You're arguing that it can be used to mean "almost the best", because use is what's important. But if enough people use it to mean "better than the best!", does that mean we have to accept that it can mean both better and worse than the best at the same time... when neither definition is actually what the word means?

If it actually comes into common use in that context, then yes it should be accepted. Until then, it is not effectively conveying the meaning the user of the word intends, so it is probably poor writing. But in most contexts, "better than ultimate", and "just beneath ultimate" are not distinguishable, because rarely are either of the terms being used literally (had to throw that in ).

It could even be that penultimate has passed into the realm of colloquial usage among certain groups (i.e. gamers). I can honestly say that I don't recall ever hearing the word used outside of archaic usage or gaming. People nowadays just say next to last. Perhaps you are not current on gamer speak. Just as crunch and fluff mean something totally different among gamers than non-gamers, maybe penultimate has gained the same status as the word "uber" among some groups. It's not being used correctly in the strictest sense, but it has gained acceptance among the group as a buzzword (there goes another one).

 

[reanjr]

My big pet peeve word is, by far, "ambivalent." Ambivalent does not mean uncaring - in fact it means quite the opposite! Ambivalent means torn between or fluctuating between two points.

What really got me was that they used it as uncaring in Studio 60 last Monday - and that's supposed to be a "smart" show. Argh.

I took it as a sarcastic remark in Studio 60. Perhaps because it is still a bit difficult to separate Matthew Perry from the sarcastic Chandler Bing...

I think that's the most important point to be made about using "correct" English. If a word is used and it conveys the intended meaning to the vast majority of the audience, then it is being used correctly, no matter what the dictionary says. If, on the other hand, you mean one thing, but the audience interprets it as something else (if the Studio 60 writers had not meant the comment to be sarcastic and I and the rest of the audience misinterpreted it's use) then you are a bad writer and should stick to looking up words in the dictionary.

 

[reanjr]

That's the penultimate definition!

Because the ultimate definition would be irrefutable, and thus the final definition used.

 

[Hypersmurf]

How do you know when someone is using it in that manner? If someone is talking about "The Penultimate Guide to Fighters!!!11!1one!1!eleven" how can you tell from context that they intend to mean more than ultimate?

Sometimes you can tell from context.

And in the spectrum of male bahavior, rape, the perfect combination of sex and violence, is the penultimate act.

The perfect combination is the second-best? She's using the word to mean "the utmost", no 'almost' about it.

Or:

Review: February 1981 saw the release of the penultimate Metal album. It’s the line-up on this record that I have always considered to be the greatest Metal band that ever took the stage. No matter how you look at it, which criteria you judge upon; songs, band, artwork, ‘Killers’ comes out on top in the world of Metal.

Response: It was the second-to-last Metal album?

Reviewer: I suppose that you're taking issue with my use (misuse) of the word 'penultimate', and if so, then okay, your right, but it's such a cool word....

The penultimate album comes out on top? That's not an 'almost' either.

I can honestly say that I don't recall ever hearing the word used outside of archaic usage or gaming.

I have - not frequently, perhaps, but on numerous occasions correctly. But more often, like the metal reviewer, using it because it sounds cool, not because they know what it means...

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If a word is used and it conveys the intended meaning to the vast majority of the audience, then it is being used correctly, no matter what the dictionary says.

The gold medal went to Monaco. The Lichtenstein team, in second place, took home the gold, and the bronze was taken by dark horse team Srpska.

If the vast majority of the audience understands that the announcer meant 'silver' for Lichtenstein, does that mean he used the word 'gold' correctly in the second sentence?

"I is sorry to the things what I done."

The meaning is conveyed, but do you consider the language to be used correctly in this example?

-Hyp.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I blame marketing. How about this:

"Penultimate ... better than Bic!"