Its Official: I HATE Vitality/Wound. You?

[Angel Tarragon]

Depends on what kind of game I am playing. Currently I use VP/WP in my Grim Tales Fantasy game, as presented in Glass Jaws document. I like it in Star Wars. I also like using it in my Dark*Matter (Shades of Grey) game.

 

[S'mon]

I don't like WP/VP either...

 

[Rystil Arden]

I really dislike WP/VP, although with some of the rules presented in this thread that reduce total death to a serious injury (such as loss of an arm), I think I would be less averse--basically, I don't mind if a lucky critical from some nobody can take a powerful character out of the fight, but what I do mind is when a lucky critical from some nobody kills a PC or three--not only is this rather anti-climactic, but it can seriously put a damper on the game's plot, particularly in a setting with no resurrection options.

Also, anyone who says "Criticals just don't happen that often" must be playing with some awful dice. Assuming 4 PCs and 4 opponents, with an average of 19-20 threat range, you'll see a critical threat almost every round of combat, on average.

 

[Aeric]

In a typical combat (lets say 6 PC Jedi vs 6 slightly less leveled Sith) We average 5 crits between the parties involved.

I don't have a lot of experience with the VP/WP system, but I will say this:

If you guys are rolling 16s and up that frequently, sell me your d20s.

Seriously.

I can't roll above a 12 to save my life (literally, in some cases). Your group apparently rolls too many of them for your tastes.

Sell me your dice, and we both win.

 

[arscott]

Perhaps the problem isn't with VP/WP at all.
Perhaps the problem is that jedi that do 6d8 points of damage and crit at 16+

Jedi are ridiculously overpowered. When you've got 12 of them in your average battle, bad things are going to happen.

I'd just play 1st level D&D, and let your characters use wish at will without paying the XP cost. You should have fewer problems.

 

[kenobi65]

I'm not familiar with the SW system, but I can't help but wonder... if a hero can use action points to confirm a critical hit, can't the same heroes use their action/force/whatever points to automatically undo a critical against them?

Not in Star Wars, no.

Force Points in Star Wars let you add the results of one or more d6s (the exact number depends on your level, and whether you're Force-sensitive) to all of your d20 rolls for one round. This helps on attack rolls, saves, skill checks, etc., but can't be used to "erase" damage; nor can it be used to affect anyone's dice rolls but your own.

So, by the RAW, if the bad guy rolls a threat, confirms it, and then does 25 points of WP damage to you, there's not a whole lot the Force Point can do to help you.

Except...any higher-level Jedi-type really should have the Dissipate Energy feat, which lets you convert WP damage into VP healing on a successful Fort save. Since the Fort save DC is 10+WP damage taken, you might need that Force Point to make the high DC after taking those 25 WPs.

 

[Hammerhead]

My hat of VP/WP no no limit!

 

[Psion]

I don't hate it. I had a house rule strongly resembling VP/WP in 2e. So of course, I was pleased to see it reborn.

Background: I've been playing Star Wars Revised d20 for about a year now, with occasional outbursts of D&D. Because of this, I feel comfortable to say this:

I hate vitality/wound points. Why?

Critical Hits.

(snip)
Combat under V/WP is essentially russian roulette. The game becames an almost grisly game of "who rolls the most 20s" usually.

Sounds like you hate Star Wars' take on the mechanic. Spycraft is a bit different. Pretty much only significant characters can inflict criticals. And it's less random.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I've been playing in an on again off again Star Wars d20 game for about 3 years now. We are all about 6th level and I think we have seen 1 maybe 2 criticals take out a PC or major villian. Our GM doesn't usually throw major Bad Guys at us and we wade through the Battle Droids and assorted trash while the main villian tries to finish his evil plot of escapes. We have had some truly awesome running battles with the game and I can't think of a single instance where the critical rules spoiled the game for us. That being said I wouldn't use VP/WP for D&D simply because Star Wars is not D&D. Both systems of calculating damage have their benefits and drawbacks.

 

[wingsandsword]

So, by the RAW, if the bad guy rolls a threat, confirms it, and then does 25 points of WP damage to you, there's not a whole lot the Force Point can do to help you.

Well, that's the way it is in the RCR. . .

Maybe the older, OCR version of WP/VP would be more to some people's taste. I think it's also the version of WP/VP listed in Unearthed Arcana (they put in the older version as OGC, clever move WotC).

In the older version, you don't die automatically at -10 WP, instead whenever you hit 0 WP you have to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10) or die, if you succeed you're only mortally wounded and you're unconscious and dying and must repeat the save every hour (+1 to the difficulty each hour you've been at 0 WP) or until you die or receive medical care (Treat Injury DC 15). If you make the save by 10 points, or a Natural 20, you completely stabilize and are in no danger of dying.

In this system, Force Points can save your life in such a case (and did in a campaign I was in using this system), and characters with high Fort saves can live quite a while. It also makes Great Fortitude a much more useful feat, since like Toughness it might directly save your life one day.

Of course, your styles may vary, we welcomed the new system when it came in because no matter what the source of damage, you always had that DC 10 Fortitude save. A direct hit from a turbolaser that can vaporize small asteroids in one hit (like in Empire Strikes Back) doing 5d10x5 (standard Star Destroyer turbolaser) still can only force a PC to make a DC 10 Fortitude save or die.