D&D 5E It's so hard to die!

[abirdcall]

Yes. People saying "just attack the downed PCs" are missing the point by a mile.

Chosing not to hit the downed PC pretty much guarantees his survival. On the other hand, if the DM do chose to hit the downed PC, it's guaranteed that they will die.

Killing a PC is now left to DM fiat. That's the real problem here.

That isn't what that means.

The DM can also choose to have the enemy creatures pass all their actions. That doesn't mean the entire fight is 'DM fiat'.

I agree with the posters who say 'tactics' are the largest factor of difficulty.

If all enemy creatures are played like zombies then yes the game is easy. For example, I see people on message boards talk about a 'front line' a lot but there is not actually such a thing in a regular party. It is easy for monsters to just walk around PCs in most cases.

 

[Retreater]

If the body is dragged away while the other PCs are engaged in combat its pretty much game over.

I had that happen once. When a character was entangled and swallowed by a shambling mound, taken into a wall of thorns. He still didn't die.

But look at the amount of actions and effort it takes to drag away a PC's body. First, the PC must be dropped to 0. Then - unless the monster has a specific ability to let it grapple as a part of the attack action - that has to be done on another turn. Once it's grabbed the body on its next turn (provided it hits with its attack roll), it can then drag the body "maybe" 30 feet (but probably less because of its Strength score).

And no party is going to let that happen. 1 point of healing, and that's over. It just doesn't happen in practice very often, and even when it does (see my example above), it is far too easy to negate.

 

[Marc_C]

I had that happen once. When a character was entangled and swallowed by a shambling mound, taken into a wall of thorns. He still didn't die.

But look at the amount of actions and effort it takes to drag away a PC's body. First, the PC must be dropped to 0. Then - unless the monster has a specific ability to let it grapple as a part of the attack action - that has to be done on another turn. Once it's grabbed the body on its next turn (provided it hits with its attack roll), it can then drag the body "maybe" 30 feet (but probably less because of its Strength score).

And no party is going to let that happen. 1 point of healing, and that's over. It just doesn't happen in practice very often, and even when it does (see my example above), it is far too easy to negate.

That is what groups of minions are for. Drag the defenceless PC away while the other monster tackle the rest of the party. Mouhahahaha!!!

 

[Stalker0]

I had my 6 player 10th level party (with 1 12th level npc cleric) go against:

100 githyanki archers (I even had an excel to track the rolls, I didn't bs it, it was legit.)
10 githyanki warriors
1 githyanki battlemaster
1 githyanki battle commander (can't remember its from volos I think)
3 githyanki war vessels (effectively shooting fireballs every round).

They made it through without a single character death....and I used the houserule that characters don't reset death save fails until a long rest.

Players are crazy, people talk about tactics, but it goes the same for players too. My group routinely smashes anything close to their CR. If I'm not at least 5 CR higher than the party its treated as a warmup.

So yeah from my perspective its pretty darn hard to kill players, not impossible, but it takes some effort.

 

[Nefermandias]

That isn't what that means.

The DM can also choose to have the enemy creatures pass all their actions. That doesn't mean the entire fight is 'DM fiat'.

I agree with the posters who say 'tactics' are the largest factor of difficulty.

If all enemy creatures are played like zombies then yes the game is easy. For example, I see people on message boards talk about a 'front line' a lot but there is not actually such a thing in a regular party. It is easy for monsters to just walk around PCs in most cases.

It's more of a matter of attacking downed PCs than playing tactically. Brutish, dumb enemies who attack unconscious characters will kill them. A well disciplined hobgoblin regiment who doesn't attack the downed characters won't kill anyone unless it's a TPK (which funnily enough, is very possible in 5e).

 

[Mistwell]

"The fighter's down and the path is clear! Get the wizard before he throws another fireball!"
"No, I have to coup de grace the fighter so the wizard doesn't heal her."

Usually it's just the second attack of a monster who has already moved, choosing to attack the downed target rather than another party member within 5 feet of the first.

 

[CleverNickName]

TL;DR: Just imagine how the players would behave if monsters didn't die at 0hp, but were instead allowed to make death saves.
Then have your monsters do what the players would do.

 

[Marc_C]

TL;DR: Just imagine how the players would behave if monsters didn't die at 0hp, but were instead allowed to make death saves.
Then have your monsters do that.

Yep. That is so unfair for my monsters I keep telling the players. I'm really tired of loosing them all the time. I'll start making death checks for my poor monsters. They deserve better!

"You go to fight, for your right, to survive!"

 

[ECMO3]

double post

 

[ECMO3]

If your DM fights enemies smart you should go unconscious a lot. If they play to purposely kill (which is not usually smart for the enemies) you will die.

Also, applying the death save mechanic to enemies and having enemies heal downed enemies helps as well. Most enemies should usually have and use escape options. If they are going to get beat, one enemy should cover/enable the retreat of another so he can bring reinforcements. Doing those things will make it a lot tougher. Those are the kinds of things your players will do.

It is really hard for a DM to prepare and fight enemies well and many/most will just line them up in a kongo line and fight to the death