D&D 5E It's the Sorcerer!

[variant]

I'm sorry, and this isn't directed at you personally, but phrases like this make me do a big double take

I mean, I've been playing D&D for almost 35 years, and the highest level PC I ever had was 16th level. 99.99% of my gaming is with PCs from level 1 to 10 or 11. So when I hear "only good to 17th-18th level', it's a shock to my sensibilities

No one will counter his ridiculous statement because he is discussing a February alpha packet that he should never have had and definitely should never discuss on a forum.

 

[MoonSong]

I'm sorry, and this isn't directed at you personally, but phrases like this make me do a big double take

I mean, I've been playing D&D for almost 35 years, and the highest level PC I ever had was 16th level. 99.99% of my gaming is with PCs from level 1 to 10 or 11. So when I hear "only good to 17th-18th level', it's a shock to my sensibilities

Well, 35 years is way more than I've been playing... or alive. I don't want to antagonize, but this is perhaps a generational thing, high levels have been a rare occurrence for me too (highest amount of experience at about 6-8th level), but not that rare, sometimes you just start at high level to begin with. Anyway I was talking about the high sorcerer levels, they don't seem worth it, and i'm not talking from an optimizer point of view, I don't optimize, but I'm used to gauge the progress of one as a sorcerer in terms of spells known, by the time you know all of the fun ones I mean. A hard cap of them at 17th seems discouraging, and it depends on what bloodline thing you can get at 18th to know if it is time to branch out or not by then.

 

[MoonSong]

No one will counter his ridiculous statement because he is discussing a February alpha packet that he should never have had and definitely should never discuss on a forum.

Who is talking about what? All I said comes from this table here (and the open playtest + following the L&L):

View attachment 62992

Sorcerers seem to cap at 17th level, no more spells known from that point onwards, and if one wants those extra 6th and 7th level slots that bad, those can be obtained from multiclassing with another full caster, and going by the last package in the open playtest and by all of the L&L columns we know that a) bard is a full caster, b) charisma is the stat you need to go bard -something every sorcerer will have no trouble fulfilling, c) by mixing two full casters you gain all the slots you would have as a single class caster. I don't know how good or bad are those features at 18th and 20th level, but I know I will want to keep learning spells, bard spells tend to be fun and include healing, and they sure can use spears and sickles, I have yet to see how fun those features will be, but from what I can see now a sorcerer 17/ anyhting else 3 will be better than a sorcerer 20.

 

[variant]

Who is talking about what? All I said comes from this table here (and the open playtest + following the L&L):


Sorcerers seem to cap at 17th level, no more spells known from that point onwards, and if one wants those extra 6th and 7th level slots that bad, those can be obtained from multiclassing with another full caster, and going by the last package in the open playtest and by all of the L&L columns we know that a) bard is a full caster, b) charisma is the stat you need to go bard -something every sorcerer will have no trouble fulfilling, c) by mixing two full casters you gain all the slots you would have as a single class caster. I don't know how good or bad are those features at 18th and 20th level, but I know I will want to keep learning spells, bard spells tend to be fun and include healing, and they sure can use spears and sickles, I have yet to see how fun those features will be, but from what I can see now a sorcerer 17/ anyhting else 3 will be better than a sorcerer 20.

I apologize then, I assumed you were making that statement based off of knowledge of what a high level sorcerer and low level bard can do.

You do know that while you will gain some more spells known, they will only be level 1 or 2 bard spells? Seems ridiculous to give up everything a high level sorcerer gets (2 sorcery points, bonus feat, and their level 18 and 20 powers) for some basic bard abilities and knowing a couple of lower level bard spells.

 

[jadrax]

You do know that while you will gain some more spells known, they will only be level 1 or 2 bard spells?

That is not quite how it works. A first level bard gets 2 first level spells. But the next level they gain spells of any level which they have spell slots. If your already a 17th level sorcerer when you enter bard, that means at second level bard you can take 9th level spells.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm sorry, and this isn't directed at you personally, but phrases like this make me do a big double take

I mean, I've been playing D&D for almost 35 years, and the highest level PC I ever had was 16th level. 99.99% of my gaming is with PCs from level 1 to 10 or 11. So when I hear "only good to 17th-18th level', it's a shock to my sensibilities

Me too have never played that high level, but honestly I don't like having the feeling that good design stopped at some point.

I don't necessarily have that feeling yet, because I have no idea what are the special abilities, but it does already feel weird if after level 17th your Sorcerer won't ever be able to learn additional spells...

 

[variant]

That is not quite how it works. A first level bard gets 2 first level spells. But the next level they gain spells of any level which they have spell slots. If your already a 17th level sorcerer when you enter bard, that means at second level bard you can take 9th level spells.

That's not how it works when multiclassing if you follow the last playtest. It specifically states that you determine the spells you know and can prepare separately for each class. The only benefit you get is that you can cast the low level spells you do know in higher level spell slots.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Leaks aside, a look at any of the level 18+ abilities in basic or in the late play tests would lead me to wager that you won't be overly tempted to take up the lute at level 18.

 

[jadrax]

That's not how it works when multiclassing if you follow the last playtest. It specifically states that you determine the spells you know and can prepare separately for each class. The only benefit you get is that you can cast the low level spells you do know in higher level spell slots.

O.k., look at the rules for picking spells for the Wizard in the basic rules:

'You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.'

You *do* prepare spells per class, so if you are a Cleric/Wizard, you would get Level plus Charisma Mod Cleric Spells, and LEvel plus Int Mod Wizard spells, but you don't (as far as I see) have any cap on spell level based on Class*, it's just not in the rules.

*Except warlocks, but they are weird.

 

[variant]

O.k., look at the rules for picking spells for the Wizard in the basic rules:

'You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.'

You *do* prepare spells per class, so if you are a Cleric/Wizard, you would get Level plus Charisma Mod Cleric Spells, and LEvel plus Int Mod Wizard spells, but you don't (as far as I see) have any cap on spell level based on Class*, it's just not in the rules.

*Except warlocks, but they are weird.

It's in the multiclass spellcasting section of the last playtest packet under Spells Known and Prepared. It even gives an example of a Bard 4 / Mage 3 multiclass where the bard only knows two cantrips and three 1st level spells and says the mage can have 2nd level spells.