D&D 5E It's the Sorcerer!

[ZombieRoboNinja]

The 5e sorcerer can cast any of a limited number of known spells using daily slots; that mechanic is identical to the 3e sorcerer (and the 5e sorc adds built-in metamagic and bloodline features). The 5e wizard prepares spells from a spellbook to cast with daily slots, the same as the 3e wizard, albeit with greater flexibility.

The sorcerer is "mechanically identical to the 5e wizard"? It's like you didn't even look at the excerpt.

Thanks for the snark. I'm aware of the differences. The sorcerer gets fewer spells known than the wizard (like 3e), fewer prepared at a time than the wizard (unlike 3e), the same spell slot progression (unlike 3e, where sorcerers got more slots but of a slightly lower level), and it makes up for those deficits with sorcery points that, at least from the latest we've heard (and in accordance with the leaked alpha), let you apply metamagic effects to your spells or gain some extra spell slots.

So basically, the 3e sorcerer took an overly complex Vancian casting system and made it slightly easier to deal with by getting rid of the preparation aspect. The 5e sorcerer takes a slightly less complex neo-Vancian casting system, and makes it MORE complex by tacking on metamagic as a core class feature.

Now, I know a lot of people like the neo-Vancian magic. To them I say, God bless. Have the wizard, whose whole schtick is an intellectual understanding of the forces of magic, and he can worry about spell slot efficiency. But if you're going to include a whole class defined as a guy who uses his force of will to cast magic from within, a guy who is just as effective with a Forrest Gump-level IQ, how does that complexity help define the character? If this is as far as they're going to go in differentiating the sorcerer, it might as well just be a wizard subclass.

 

[Zhaleskra]

Much better art than any of the 5e female characters I've seen so far. Also far superior to the 3.x Sorcerer art.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

But the sorcerer is a spell point class in disguise! You don't even need your DM to give you permission, just make your own chart with the equivalent spell points you have at each level, at first level you have two slots= two spell points and a limit to spend one at the time, at second level you have five and a limit to spend one at the time, at third level you have eleven and a limit to spend two + metamagic and so on. (the numbers are guesses but you get the point)

On the converse you could also treat all of your points to the maximum slots possible for a powerhouse that scales all slots like a warlock!

I find it extremely likely that in the default rules, converting sorcery points to spell slots and back is not completely lossless, meaning that you couldn't just convert the spells/day chart into sorcery points and use that. This would indeed be a very easy module or house-rule, just as converting any 5e class to spell points would be quite easy (perhaps by using the Warlock kludge where level 6-9 spells are counted separately, to keep you from just using all your spell points to cast Meteor Swarm five times in a row). But it would certainly require DM agreement, which (a) isn't always possible or practical, especially in one-shot adventures, and (b) isn't something that new players would know about, meaning there is no way in the PHB to play a caster who doesn't have to wade through an 80-page alphabetical list of spells and keep track of an Excel chart of spell slots if he wants to kill things with fire rather than with swords.

I just find it ridiculous that WOTC faced a violent rebellion if people were "forced" to play a fighter who knew a dozen distinct maneuvers at level 20, but nobody except me is asking to play a simple mage.

 

[ForumFerret]

lots more Sorcery points than they had previously. Also: no additional cantrips, ever, unless you burn spells known?

 

[jadrax]

Also: no additional cantrips, ever, unless you burn spells known?

They basically get one more Cantrip than a Wizard/Cleric. As far as I am aware, no class can learn extra cantrips above and beyond that*. You cannot convert 'spells' into cantrips, they are not quite the same thing.


*apart from by being a High elf, although there also may well be a feat to do it.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I just find it ridiculous that WOTC faced a violent rebellion if people were "forced" to play a fighter who knew a dozen distinct maneuvers at level 20, but nobody except me is asking to play a simple mage.

Leaving aside the question of whether a mage requires a certain level of complexity--which is a discussion worth having, but not here--it seems to me that the wizard itself is your simple mage this time around. Choose one of the more straightforward specializations, like evocation, and you're pretty good to go.

It's a bit of a mental shuffle, to get used to the wizard being simpler, sorcerer and warlock being less so, but I think that's a good thing. I want the Foundational Four to be--or at least have options to be--the simplest and most newbie friendly classes.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Thanks for the snark. I'm aware of the differences.

It wasn't snark. It was an observation. And if you were aware of the differences, why would you say they are identical:

So they took a class whose whole raison d'être in 3e was different caster mechanics, and made it mechanically identical to the 5e wizard. Biggest disappointment in 5e. .

You can hardly blame people for responding to the words you actually say. Because based on your first post, it seemed pretty clear that you weren't aware of any of differences to make a claim that they are mechanically identical.

 

[Rabbitbait]

Listen to all you metagamers...

What's the difference between the two classes?

A wizard studies for years and learns arcane formulas in order to case spells.
A sorcerer has the magic burning within them whether they like it or not.

Everything else is mechanics. It's the flavor that is important.

 

[TwoSix]

Listen to all you metagamers...

Everything else is mechanics. It's the flavor that is important.

There are many RPGs where that is true. D&D is emphatically not one of them.

 

[Zelc]

The Sorcerer seems really underwhelming, especially with spells known. Sorcery Points and Metamagic had better be really impressive.

Spell access (long-term):
Wizard: potentially unbounded, at least 2 spells per level
Sorcerer: roughly 2 spells per level until level 12 (1 new, 1 swapped), then 1 new spell per new spell level

Spells available for casting (short-term):
Wizards: 1 spell per level + Int mod
Sorcerer: 1 spell per level + 1 up to level 11, then much slower afterwards (1x 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level spell known unless swapping out a lower-level spell)

Spells per day:
Wizard: Gets 1/2 class level in extra levels of spell slots. Eventually gets an at-will 1st-, 2nd-, and 3rd-level spell.
Sorcerer: Sorcery points (will this be more than 1/2 class level in extra levels of spell slots?)

Tricks:
Sorcerer: Metamagic (uses Sorcery points? which would conflict with spells per day), Sorcerous Origin feature
Wizard: Arcane Tradition