D&D 5E It's the Sorcerer!

[Sir Brennen]

There are no simple casters.

No, but I think the topic of conversation is that some casters have been simpler relative to others in previous editions, and that seems to be somewhat true in 5E at this point, though the expectation of which class "simpler" applies to has possibly changed from previous editions and expectations.

The very basis of Wizards, preparing spells that you then cast a different amount of times from, confused an otherwise very smart player in my group when she tried to grok it. After explaining that, to hand her close to a hundred pages of spell lists, and just say 'pick stuff from here'..? Yeah, no. The spells aren't even categorized by class or school, it's all a mess!

I'll also admit I had a very smart, experienced player who was momentarily flummoxed trying to understand the difference between number of prepared spells vs number of spell slots. However, I think it's perhaps less counter-intuitive to a new player than an experienced one.

The other point, sounds like you were either being unnecessarily cruel to your player or simply exaggerating. If they're creating a new wizard using the Basic PDF, just point them to the list of 11 1st level wizard spells (because they ARE categorized by class in those lists) at the beginning of chapter 11. Say "pick from there". Then add "Most evocation spells deal with creating energy effects, like fire. You can probably tell from the name of the spell which those are. If not, you can look it up - it's easy, because they're alphabetical - and the first line under the spell tells you what school it belongs to."

 

[MoonSong]

OK, I'll accept that. (If only because the only other one we've had a good look at is the Cleric, and we don't really know what the complete Warlock looks like.)

I would say it's equally true that we have seen no simple casters in 5e, as yet.

Well, I think it isn't as hard to get a simple sorcerer, put all of your points into as many high slots as you can, and if slot conversion is lossless we can make a chart of sorts that has the maximum amount possible and have everybody wanting to play the simplest possible caster only choose spells at level up. (and we can have a chart for maximum possible levels -raw power- and one for maximum possible number of slots -aiming for an almost at-will feel-)

 

[Agamon]

There are no simple casters.

Thanks Neo!

Seriously, wizards aren't that tough to run. There is a bit to it, especially for a complete newbie. But, if that's the case, the quick start, "take this, this and this" suggestions in each class would help until the feet have been wetted.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

It's not more complex for the character, just the player.

I agree, but isn't the whole point of having different mechanics for different classes that those mechanics should reflect the characters?

For example, one aspect where 5e gets it "right": wizards prep different spells everyday, whereas sorcerers have a set list of spells known. It makes sense that the wizard class would have a bit of added mechanical complexity here, because the wizard character is supposed to be constantly studying his spells and evaluating which to use.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Well, I think it isn't as hard to get a simple sorcerer, put all of your points into as many high slots as you can, and if slot conversion is lossless we can make a chart of sorts that has the maximum amount possible and have everybody wanting to play the simplest possible caster only choose spells at level up. (and we can have a chart for maximum possible levels -raw power- and one for maximum possible number of slots -aiming for an almost at-will feel-)

That sounds like a fair simplification (kinda like what Mouseferatu applied to the wizard). Proponents of 'simple,' have, in the past balked at 'pre-builds' like that which condense options to simplify a class.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I think we need to see the whole sorceror entry before we can judge it. they get con saves, which is good for concentration checks. Mearls previously said they get metamagic, but cant see that part yet...

 

[Mouseferatu]

That sounds like a fair simplification (kinda like what Mouseferatu applied to the wizard). Proponents of 'simple,' have, in the past balked at 'pre-builds' like that which condense options to simplify a class.

I think, at that point, one starts to get into a "have your cake and eat it, too" situation. While it's not a direct correlation--there's wiggle room and shades of gray--the fact is that, beyond a certain point, options equal added complexity by definition. Add enough items on the mechanical menu, and it eventually becomes impossible to keep the class "simple."

Hence options like champion vs. battle mater fighter. And hence choices like drastically restricting your options when playing a wizard in order to keep the class as simple as possible.

So yeah, I get that some people object to such things. But I think, when they also still want a class to be as straightforward as possible--at that point their reach is at least 30 ft/6 squares ahead of their grasp.

 

[Savage Wombat]

My gut tells me that, once we see the package for the Storm Sorcerer, we will see that customizing the package for other bloodlines will be incredibly easy.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I've always wondered why WotC has been scant in the varieties of bloodlines in comparison to how Pathfinder has. For 5e I guess though it depends on the complexity of bloodlines. Of course there's always the possibility they had to have less bloodlines, because they had to include all the main schools of wizardry in the PHB.

I know it's also been suggested that the Favored Soul might one day be a Sorcerer bloodline.

 

[MoonSong]

I've always wondered why WotC has been scant in the varieties of bloodlines in comparison to how Pathfinder has. For 5e I guess though it depends on the complexity of bloodlines. Of course there's always the possibility they had to have less bloodlines, because they had to include all the main schools of wizardry in the PHB.

I know it's also been suggested that the Favored Soul might one day be a Sorcerer bloodline.

They've always been stingy with sorcerer support, it doesn't surprise me.