jgbrowning, Rystil Arden, and Hypersmurf talk amongst themselves

[Hypersmurf]

Maybe, but if you're not a humanoid you cannot be effected.

No, if you're not a humanoid, you're not a valid target. And you can't be controlled.

No mention that the caster can't receive sensory impressions from a non-humanoid if the spell is already in place on them.

You can't have bird flu if your not a bird. Even bird flu caused by magic.

But the disease is one anyone can catch. It's just that the spell only transmits it to humanoids.

If I cast a spell that deals 10 damage to undead at a lich, and then he Polymorphs himself into a hobgoblin, does the damage go away?

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

You can't have bird flu if your not a bird. Even bird flu caused by magic.


joe b.

I said that the disease affected Giants in my initial description.

The disease itself affects any type, but this spell only infects humanoids.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Minor rules quibble: There is no such effect as "Dominated" so the word dominated must instead refer to "affected by the Dominate Person spell." So he's dominated the whole time, no matter what he's allowed to do, for what its worth.

Yup. Just like the vampire can still receive sensory impressions from you if you have a Protection from Evil up.

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Yup. Just like the vampire can still receive sensory impressions from you if you have a Protection from Evil up.

-Hyp.

Indeed, the first thing I said when this thread started is that I'd treat it like being inside a Protection from Evil.

 

[jgbrowning]

No, if you're not a humanoid, you're not a valid target. And you can't be controlled.

No mention that the caster can't receive sensory impressions from a non-humanoid if the spell is already in place on them.

A giant can never be the "subject" of a dominate person spell. Only humanoids.

But the disease is one anyone can catch. It's just that the spell only transmits it to humanoids.

If I cast a spell that deals 10 damage to undead at a lich, and then he Polymorphs himself into a hobgoblin, does the damage go away?

-Hyp.

Ok, I sorry, I must have misunderstood. If the disease effects both types, then the disease continues regardless of type changes until a type is turned into that isn't effected by the diesease.

As to the damage, unless the spell says that previous damage is undone, I'd say no.

joe b.

 

[jgbrowning]

I said that the disease affected Giants in my initial description.

Yeah, I somehow missed that um.. fairly important bit. Sorry,

joe b.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

If your type changes, you are the new type for all effects and purposes.

joe b.

Yes, but you've already been dominated. You're not being targeted by the spell, it's already been cast. Your mind is in thrall to the vampire. The only possible rationale for ruling that the spell would no longer permit new commands to be given is "Changing your instructions or giving a dominated creature a new command is the equivalent of redirecting a spell, so it is a move action." Arguably this implies that you are refreshing the spell, although I think it is referring purely to the requirement for a move action, as there is no indication of a new saving throw.

 

[jgbrowning]

Yes, but you've already been dominated. You're not being targeted by the spell, it's already been cast. Your mind is in thrall to the vampire. The only possible rationale for ruling that the spell would no longer permit new commands to be given is "Changing your instructions or giving a dominated creature a new command is the equivalent of redirecting a spell, so it is a move action." Arguably this implies that you are refreshing the spell, although I think it is referring purely to the requirement for a move action, as there is no indication of a new saving throw.

Here's an analogy. The spell is a virus that only targets X type computers, if I magically turn into a Y type of computer while the virus is running, I don't have any worries because the virus can't exist on Y computer.

The reason there is a type change at all is to show that things that don't effect the new type don't effect the creature using the spell. If creatures were effected, regardless of type, there would be no need to indicate a change at all. Conversly, the creature is affected by spells that affect the new type.

joe b.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Here's an analogy. The spell is a virus that only targets X type computers, if I magically turn into a Y type of computer while the virus is running, I don't have any worries because the virus can't exist on Y computer.

The reason there is a type change at all is to show that things that don't effect the new type don't effect the creature using the spell. If creatures were effected, regardless of type, there would be no need to indicate a change at all. Conversly, the creature is affected by spells that affect the new type.

joe b.

But Rodrigo has the equally valid and only slightly different analogy: The spell is a virus that only targets people who use Microsoft Outlook (shame on you!). I magically switch e-mail to Eudora, but I've already been infected by the virus. It can still fry my hard drive.

 

[jgbrowning]

What everyone seems to be arguing for is that you can cast shillelagh on a club and then transform it into a sword and the spell would still work. I think the rules are fairly explict about what effects what based upon the [type] feature for living creatures and a simple description of objects.

Heat metal doesn't heat up formerly metal armor that's now wood. Dominate person doesn't dominate anything but a person.

joe b.