jgbrowning, Rystil Arden, and Hypersmurf talk amongst themselves

[jgbrowning]

But Rodrigo has the equally valid and only slightly different analogy: The spell is a virus that only targets people who use Microsoft Outlook (shame on you!). I magically switch e-mail to Eudora, but I've already been infected by the virus. It can still fry my hard drive.

No. You're using a biological drive upon which the virus cant even exist.

A [type] change is that radical. That why they are very specific about what type does and doesn't effect.

joe b.

 

[Rystil Arden]

What everyone seems to be arguing for is that you can cast shillelagh on a club and then transform it into a sword and the spell would still work. I think the rules are fairly explict about what effects what based upon the [type] feature for living creatures and a simple description of objects.

Heat metal doesn't heat up formerly metal armor that's now wood. Dominate person doesn't dominate anything but a person.

joe b.

For all three cases: if the target was valid at the initial casting, the spell is still active after you polymorph the target, but the spell may not allow its full effects.

 

[jgbrowning]

For all three cases: if the target was valid at the initial casting, the spell is still active after you polymorph the target, but the spell may not allow its full effects.

Why do you say the spell is still active? Active on what? That particular spell cannot exist on that particular type or object.

joe b.

 

[Bad Paper]

If I cast a spell that deals 10 damage to undead at a lich, and then he Polymorphs himself into a hobgoblin, does the damage go away?

Yes. Polymorph heals damage.

ba dum-bump! Thank you! I'll be here all week!

 

[Rystil Arden]

Why do you say the spell is still active? Active on what? That particular spell cannot exist on that particular type or object.

joe b.

Heat Metal is still active on the wooden armour, Shillelagh is still active on the staff-turned-sword and Dominate Person is still active on the newfound giant. The spell is up, the duration is ticking, and any portions of the effects that do not specifically preclude the new form are working.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A giant can never be the "subject" of a dominate person spell. Only humanoids.

Remind me - when you say "but if the guy was foolish enough to transform back into a humanoid he could be dominated again", do you mean "the vampire could use a second instance of Dominate Person to dominate him again", or "the vampire could issue a new command via the original Dominate which remains in effect, even though the character was a giant for a while"?

-Hyp.

 

[jgbrowning]

Heat Metal is still active on the wooden armour, Shillelagh is still active on the staff-turned-sword and Dominate Person is still active on the newfound giant. The spell is up, the duration is ticking, and any portions of the effects that do not specifically preclude the new form are working.

You don't think that the fact that there is no metal something that "specifically precludes" heat metal from working?

We're not dealing with an anti-magic field. We're dealing with a real, phyical change of matter. Heat metal will never work on anything that's not metal. Not even a little bit. Not even dampered, not even "still in effect but just not working."

joe b.

 

[jgbrowning]

Remind me - when you say "but if the guy was foolish enough to transform back into a humanoid he could be dominated again", do you mean "the vampire could use a second instance of Dominate Person to dominate him again", or "the vampire could issue a new command via the original Dominate which remains in effect, even though the character was a giant for a while"?

-Hyp.

Sorry, should have been clearer. The initial dominate ended with the type change. A new dominate could occur.

joe b.

 

[Rystil Arden]

You don't think that the fact that there is no metal something that "specifically precludes" heat metal from working?

We're not dealing with an anti-magic field. We're dealing with a real, phyical change of matter. Heat metal will never work on anything that's not metal. Not even a little bit. Not even dampered, not even "still in effect but just not working."

joe b.

It may not be making the armour-wearer hot, but the spell is still active. Its just rendered impotent

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sorry, should have been clearer. The initial dominate ended with the type change. A new dominate could occur.

Okay.

As an analogy - diseases affect 'characters'. 'Character' is used synonymously with 'creature'. When you die, you are no longer a 'living or otherwise active being' (the definition of a creature), therefore not a creature, therefore not a character, therefore unable to be infected with a disease, right?

Initial diseases therefore end with death; new diseases can occur after you're alive again.

Does that tally with your perception?

-Hyp.