Journeyman base class in Dungeonscape?

[Razz]

I HATE NEW CLASSES!

What's the freaking point?! They are created and forgotten. Of all the new classes out there the only ones getting any attention by WotC are the ones from Expanded Psionics Handbook and the Warlock. The rest are left almost bone dry for new material.

The rest are left in the already burdened hands of Dragon Magazine which isn't entirely fair for them. WotC needs to take some of the responsibility of supporting this new material. It makes players really annoyed when they play a Ninja or Journeyman or Incarnate and the only material they have is the book they were first introduced. Meanwhile, their friends are pouring through book after book with tons of material for their core classes. It leaves a sour taste in a player's mouth for bothering with a new class seeing as how they don't receive even an ounce of support while Wizards get every new spell in the world or the bard gets his own category of feats.

Rant done about new classes.

 

[JPL]

PH2 had substantial new material for many of the new base classes. And didn't the spellcaster classes like wu jen get some new spells in Complete Arcane?

Hey, could someone give me the skinny on the savant?

 

[Klaus]

I HATE NEW CLASSES!

What's the freaking point?! They are created and forgotten. Of all the new classes out there the only ones getting any attention by WotC are the ones from Expanded Psionics Handbook and the Warlock. The rest are left almost bone dry for new material.

The rest are left in the already burdened hands of Dragon Magazine which isn't entirely fair for them. WotC needs to take some of the responsibility of supporting this new material. It makes players really annoyed when they play a Ninja or Journeyman or Incarnate and the only material they have is the book they were first introduced. Meanwhile, their friends are pouring through book after book with tons of material for their core classes. It leaves a sour taste in a player's mouth for bothering with a new class seeing as how they don't receive even an ounce of support while Wizards get every new spell in the world or the bard gets his own category of feats.

Rant done about new classes.

Yeah, what's this with no support for classes like the Scout (Heroes of Battle, PHB2, Stormwrack), Swashbuckler (PHB2), Hexblade (Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, PHB2, Complete Adventurer), Wu Jen (Complete Mage)...

 

[Grymar]

This might work as a class. The expert NPC class is almost good enough to play as a PC class, but it needed some buffing. I assume that this is a meld between the expert an d the rogue.

This plus the Extreme Explorer PrC from Eberron would be a great dungeon scout.

 

[Psion]

Yeah, what's this with no support for classes like the Scout (Heroes of Battle, PHB2, Stormwrack), Swashbuckler (PHB2), Hexblade (Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, PHB2, Complete Adventurer), Wu Jen (Complete Mage)...

Scout, Swashbuckler, and Ninja all have support in Complete Scoundrel as well (in fact, that's what made me consider reversing my opinion on Swashbuckler and Ninja. Scout's still out, though.)

But nonetheless, I think it's a good point. The more classes you have, the more you dilute support for them. I was much vexed that the complete series classes AND of all classes, Marshall, got support in PHBII, but no psionics classes did.

And the more this happens, the worse it gets. The more dilute the support for each class becomes.

 

[JPL]

Agreed, Psion. I hate the fact that substantial portions of PHBII are of no use to me because I don't have the books with those new core classes.

One thing I would like to see is a "Player's Compendium" that collected and updated some of the character options from various sources --- some base classes (starting with the ones covered in PHBII), some prestige classes, some substitution levels, etc.

Heck, throw in some new material supporting these various options and you could sell some of these even to folks who already own the Complete books. Expand each of the new base classes with, say, three or four sets of racial substitution levels. Give each new class a couple of associated prestige classes.

 

[Crothian]

Try the Savant base class from Dragon. Pick the 1e version or the 3e version.

Not that helpful since I don't have Dragon

 

[Razz]

Scout, Swashbuckler, and Ninja all have support in Complete Scoundrel as well (in fact, that's what made me consider reversing my opinion on Swashbuckler and Ninja. Scout's still out, though.)

But nonetheless, I think it's a good point. The more classes you have, the more you dilute support for them. I was much vexed that the complete series classes AND of all classes, Marshall, got support in PHBII, but no psionics classes did.

And the more this happens, the worse it gets. The more dilute the support for each class becomes.

This is my point exactly. I didn't mean they received 0% support at all, it's just a small percentage, 10%/year of new material I would say, support for each of the new classes.

But the problem is just as you stated: the percentages decrease with each new class. One solution would be to come out with a 224 page book, say, every 6-12 months detailing new material for non-core material. This would definitely prevent non-core material that people don't need in their games from appearing in general products.

Of course, the other solution would be to stop making new classes

Also a lot of the new classes would've just made really good prestige classes. The list, I believe, of the new classes being just prestige classes are as follows:

Beguiler
Dragonfire Adept
Dread Necromancer
Soulknife
Warmage

I don't have my classes list with me but these are from the top of my head.

The rest are fine as classes I think. Except for the "Complete Warrior" Samurai...that's just plain horrible.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Not that helpful since I don't have Dragon

It's one of the reprinted and updated classes in the Compendium.

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

Hi there all,

Although I wrote the chapter with this class in it, I have come to learn that is has gone through significant revision. Alas, I cannot say much about it either way. I suppose I could share the basic idea. My idea for the class was to create a character who could go it alone, with a lot of abilities to boost itself, instead of others (like a bard) for a limited period of time each day. A jack of all trades type... the perfect PC for a group that has a missing player problem.

As for those who dislike new base classes, I can certainly see your point. We try to give them coverage in Dragon whenever possible, but there just seems to be too many and we only recieve querries on a select few of them. Alas, this new one was part of the outline I was given for the book.. so in it went.

I hope everyone enjoys the book. I am very excited to see it.

Jason Bulmahn
Managing Editor of Dragon
Co-Author of Dungeonscape