Just got Dragon 315 - Campaign Classics

[Alzrius]

Is it me, or should #315 issue be an expanded Dragon Annual 2003, with the missing Spelljammer article, for just $3 more?

I mean after that last Annual they should have at least try to redeem themselves by returning to THIS thematic format.

Now that would be a great idea for an annual. That way player's of the old campaigns would get something for those worlds every year, and it wouldn't take up any of the usual twelve issues, so as not to worry people who don't play those worlds regularly.

Unfortunately, some of the devoted Spelljammer fans don't accept the mini-game/setting. They'd rather have something about "crystal shells" and "phlogistons."

Heck yes. Would you want to play Dark Sun without psionics or any sorcerer-kings? Of course not. Why? Because then it isn't the same setting. That Polyhedron article did not, IMO, present Spelljammer, it presented "Spelljammer Lite".

Personally, that is the only way to market SJ line, as a completely separate setting altogether, not some link to other games like Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance.

Strongly disagree. Marketing SJ this way would utterly isolate it from its existing fanbase. Spelljammer could be played alone, but half the fun of it is that it has the blend of all those other campaign worlds, letting players sample almost all of them at once, and yet truly belong to none. You may not think so, but quite a lot of players like that.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Strongly disagree. Marketing SJ this way would utterly isolate it from its existing fanbase. Spelljammer could be played alone, but half the fun of it is that it has the blend of all those other campaign worlds, letting players sample almost all of them at once, and yet truly belong to none. You may not think so, but quite a lot of players like that.

Oh the found ole days of making runs between Krynn and Faerun... Coining worthless steel coins for the long trip to Krynn to exchange them for gold.

 

[Alzrius]

Purely in the interest of completeness, they didn't publish an article for the old Dragon Dice game either. It was a TSR world that sometimes had supplements in Dragon back when it was published. A d20 article would have been a very archaic blast from the past.

Of course, I never expected them to do this, just pointing it out.

 

[Ashy]

Hey Psion. I figured I'd answer this since Planescape on the cover is what got me to purchase the magazine. It is post-faction war writeups, so some of the wordcount is devoted to where the Factions are now, but a lot of the material can easily be modified to a Pre-FW campaign. Here's a quick rundown of what's given:

Athar - magic item called Spireshard.
Fraternity of Order - magic items, Zelehut Wings and Kolyarut Hand.
Doomguard - magic weapons qualities: Wrecker, and Stealer.
Harmonium - prestige class: Harmonium Peacekeeper.
Fated - NPC Factol, Aram Oakwright.
Revolutionary League - prestige class: Anarchomancer.

Obviously, I would love to see more material (like say a whole new Campaign Set), but I'm very happy to see the PS inclusion. And its written by David Noonan, who has always been very famliar with the material. It's got me reminiscing, I'll tell ya.

MOST EXCELLENT!!!!

 

[thundershot]

Strongly disagree. Marketing SJ this way would utterly isolate it from its existing fanbase. Spelljammer could be played alone, but half the fun of it is that it has the blend of all those other campaign worlds, letting players sample almost all of them at once, and yet truly belong to none. You may not think so, but quite a lot of players like that.

Yup. That was one of the big things that made Spelljammer special for my group. They could go anywhere, and never truly "belong". And Goblin's Return and Heart of the Enemy were WONDERFUL modules, IMO... I'd love to see more of the second Inhuman War...



Chris

 

[Alzrius]

And Goblin's Return and Heart of the Enemy were WONDERFUL modules, IMO... I'd love to see more of the second Inhuman War...

If I could make a change to the old SJ line, I'd have downgraded The Astromundi Cluster to "just" a module, and instead made Under the Dark Fist the boxed set. I mean, really...here you have an empire of twelve crystal spheres deciding to conquer and annex Greyspace, Realmspace, and Krynnspace! A tiny 64-page module isn't nearly enough for that! Heck, a boxed set would barely do it justice either. That imperial invasion should have kicked off a whole new direction for the campaign.

 

[Orius]

I'm surprised they put Blackmoor and Hollow World in there, as I can't imagine many people from this current 3ed group who remember/know about it.

And, I'm just being a knob here, but do you really consider Ghostwalk, or The Sundered Empire to be "classic"? We're talking about settings that were written up only 1-2 years ago. Does a setting merely have to go "unsupported" for it to be considered "classic"?

Otherwise, it sounds like cool beans, through and through.

I think they're just simply including every single setting ever published by TSR/WotC for D&D. Hell, they even have a countdown article for Eberron. I GOT to get my hands on a copy of this issue. Even if I don't use half of it, just the fact that they haven't forgotten many of the old classics simply makes it cool.

Some of the stuff looks ho-hum, but they have articles on defilers for Dark Sun, bloodlines for Birthright, the Red Curse and such for Red Steel, and sha'irs for Al-Qadim. These were fairly central elements to those campaigns, and so I think were looking at crunchy bits, updated to 3e (well 3.5) rules.

 

[Orius]

I'm surprised they put Blackmoor and Hollow World in there, as I can't imagine many people from this current 3ed group who remember/know about it.

And, I'm just being a knob here, but do you really consider Ghostwalk, or The Sundered Empire to be "classic"? We're talking about settings that were written up only 1-2 years ago. Does a setting merely have to go "unsupported" for it to be considered "classic"?

Otherwise, it sounds like cool beans, through and through.

I think they're just simply including every single setting ever published by TSR/WotC for D&D (ok, except Spelljammer). Hell, they even have a countdown article for Eberron. I GOT to get my hands on a copy of this issue. Even if I don't use half of it, just the fact that they haven't forgotten many of the old classics simply makes it cool.

Some of the stuff looks ho-hum, but they have articles on defilers for Dark Sun, bloodlines for Birthright, the Red Curse and such for Red Steel, and sha'irs for Al-Qadim. These were fairly central elements to those campaigns, and so I think we're looking at crunchy bits, updated to 3e (well 3.5) rules. It's be great if the crunchy bits would be generic enough to rip off for homebrew worlds too.

 

[Alzrius]

I think they're just simply including every single setting ever published by TSR/WotC for D&D.

True, though in the strictest sense, Chainmail wasn't D&D...hence why I mentioned Dragon Dice.

Likewise, a few other D&D (or D&D-related) works were ignored also:

Rokugan wasn't mentioned, though it was the subject of WotC's Oriental Adventures, though this omission is understandable since AEG now owns the rights to Rokugan, and isn't just renting them like White Wolf is for Ravenloft.

Dragon Fist wasn't touched, though again, this is understandable since the rights for that game were sold back to it's creator, Chris Pramas of Green Ronin.

The Wheel of Time d20 RPG wasn't given an article, and neither was the world of Diablo II, nor Call of Cthulhu, though again, licensing is almost-certainly the primary reason for those omissions.

The Council of Wyrms setting received nothing.

Lankhmar wasn't given an article, though that may be due to that world being licensed from Fritz Leiber's series of novels.

Kingdoms of Kalamar, which has the D&D label right on it, had no supporting articles...though this may be due to Kenzer still owning Kalamar, and just renting the D&D logo, from what I can tell.

If you consider them campaigns, then the Historical Reference series (A Mighty Fortress, The Glory of Rome, The Crusades, Charlemange's Paladins, Age of Heroes, Vikings, Celts), Jakandor (Jakandor: Isle of Destiny, Jakandor: Island of War!, Jakandor: Land of Legend), the Arcane Age (Netheril: Empire of Magic, How the Mighty are Fallen), and the Hordelands (boxed set of the same name), were all ignored.

And the most glaring omission is Spelljammer, which they apologized for in that same issue. Personally, I wish they had dumped the Ghostwalk article (IMHO the least-deserving article) to make room for it.

Hell, they even have a countdown article for Eberron. I GOT to get my hands on a copy of this issue. Even if I don't use half of it, just the fact that they haven't forgotten many of the old classics simply makes it cool.

Amen to that!

 

[Ranger REG]

Heck yes. Would you want to play Dark Sun without psionics or any sorcerer-kings? Of course not. Why? Because then it isn't the same setting. That Polyhedron article did not, IMO, present Spelljammer, it presented "Spelljammer Lite".

I can do without psionics and sorcerer-king, but I will not do without feral halfling, mul (half-dwarf), and gladiators. That's how I view the Dark Sun

And this is how I view Spelljammer. I can do without phlogistons and crystal shells (representing published or homebrewed settings) but I will not do without the flying ships that can travel through space. And that's the very first thing that appealed to me when I saw that Spelljammer boxed set, flying ships in space ... D&D style.

I mean really, who ever thought that when they first saw Spelljammer did they think, "ooh, I hope they have phlogistons and crystal shells in it"?

Strongly disagree. Marketing SJ this way would utterly isolate it from its existing fanbase. Spelljammer could be played alone, but half the fun of it is that it has the blend of all those other campaign worlds, letting players sample almost all of them at once, and yet truly belong to none. You may not think so, but quite a lot of players like that.

Then anybody who have played Spelljammer before, can do so again. They don't need Wizards' official stamp of approval. But like it or not, if Spelljammer is going to be re-introduced to the new audience, it needs to be re-invented. Otherwise, catering to the same number of Spelljammer audience (last counted back in the 90's) is not going to support it for long.

It first needs to have its own base setting to build upon that is different from Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Eberron, and Dragonlance. It also need a novel line that DOES NOT use a character from Dragonlance as the leading iconic figure associated with Spelljammer. It has to be unique, for its own brand to flourish.