Just watched Narnia (Possible spoilers)

[Storm Raven]

I won't dispute that the allegory is obvious (to those who look for it), but when I read the series as a child (aged around 8-10 IIRC) I never once made the connections between the Chronicles and anything in the Bible. Of course, there is the bit about referring to humans as 'Sons of Adam' and 'Daughters of Eve', but I understood that as a simple epithet with no deep religious significance.

It is pretty obvious even if you don't look for it. Really, how hard is it to make the leap from Aslan's sacrifice to save the sinner Edmund and subsequent rebirth to the story of the crucifixtion? I could see how an 8-10 year old might miss it (especially if said 8-10 year old was not raised in a religious environment, I don't know if you were or not), but it should be immediately obvious to any adult who reads the books - whether they are looking for the allegory or not.

 

[Firebeetle]

What do the author's know?

I just find it amusing that despite J.R.R. Tolkien repeatedly stating that LotR was not allegorical or topical in any way, people still insist on claiming that it's a Christian allegory, or an allegory on World War II, or that the One Ring represents nuclear weapons, et cetera.

As any English major will tell you, what do the author's know? An allegory need not be intentional to be an allegory. Shakespeare's works are the best example, he would have had no idea of the ways his work has been interpreted over the years.

One more thing...

Now I've been a Christian my whole life, but I've never heard once about Christ going to Hell after being crucified. May I ask which translation of the New Testament that's from?

It's a frequent and common interpretation. Obviously held by C.S. Lewis himself, as Aslan goes to the Witch's castle and frees the statues there.

 

[Firebeetle]

My experiences with it are limited to the cartoon a lot of years back and reading synopsis on Wikipedia but this sounds cool. I for one am glad they are minimizing the religious allagory apparently and not having the kids spouting hip snappy dialogue as you said. Should be cool.

Yes, I had the constant triade of drivel that usually comes out of kids mouths after a movie.

 

[Firebeetle]

Allegory does not mean literal match.

Um, note that Gandalf's nature as an angelic immortal, placed by the powers that be is not established withitn the LotR itself. You must read outside the trilogy to have that information.

You got me there, and yet the statement is still true.

Yeah, this is a more obvious allegory, because Christ went to the cross kicking and screaming and resisting against manifested demons? Sorry, no.

I wouldn't call our allegorical Narnian pussy cat a pacifist either.

Yeah, and note how Christ never smites anyone, Lucifer included? How is it a more obvious Christian allegory when it is a less clear and accurate retelling of the Christian myth?

Unfair comparison. Christ is a man in the gospel. Satan is more than that. They don't exist on the same level in the gospels. Further, the use of fighting in allegory shows conflict. Christ overcomes without violence of any sort, but to make that conflict accessible, you probably need to show some fighting.

Right, the savior character has a quiet last few moments with his disciples, and then willingly goes off to be sacrificed, only to be reborn (found alive, just as Christ, by two females). That's not obvious at all!

On the contrary, Gandalf spends quite a bit of time with his discipiles in quiet contemplation before the end. There are no women though, that doesn't defeat the allegory.

No allegory is every obvious to an uninformed observer. How would an observer uninformed on Christian mythology get all the points you make about Gandalf?

He fights a demon, suppousedly dies, then comes back to set things right. That's the passion and resurrection in a nutshell. Many of the uninformed get it.

 

[Firebeetle]

We are about to find out

It is pretty obvious even if you don't look for it. Really, how hard is it to make the leap from Aslan's sacrifice to save the sinner Edmund and subsequent rebirth to the story of the crucifixtion? I could see how an 8-10 year old might miss it (especially if said 8-10 year old was not raised in a religious environment, I don't know if you were or not), but it should be immediately obvious to any adult who reads the books - whether they are looking for the allegory or not.

I don't find it a hard leap at all. Like I said, it made salvation plain to me. However, the comparison was explained to me as well.

I've been talking about this book for a long time (my first exposure was a performance by an acting troupe at age 8 in my church) and it's been my experience that virtually everyone needs it explained to them. Adults especially. In fact, the pastor at a local church has asked us to cut the sound when the credits roll so he can explain it to his congregation after they see it. Must be his experience too.

However, my hypothesis (and yours) are about to be tested. I'll bet my dice bag that lots of people leave the theater saying, "where was the bible bit?"

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

But Gandalf didn't come back and defeat Sauron. He was just a helper. I find that whole mess to be an allegory of the Christian mythology in a very loose sense only.

 

[Storm Raven]

I wouldn't call our allegorical Narnian pussy cat a pacifist either.

But he goes to the sacrifice willingly, and without a fight. That's a big difference from the Gandalf situation.

Unfair comparison. Christ is a man in the gospel. Satan is more than that. They don't exist on the same level in the gospels. Further, the use of fighting in allegory shows conflict. Christ overcomes without violence of any sort, but to make that conflict accessible, you probably need to show some fighting.

Christ is more than a man in the gospel as well (remember his time in the desert being tempted for days on end)? Aslan manages to go to his sacrifice without any fighting. In point of fact, Aslan only fights after he has returned from death.

He fights a demon, suppousedly dies, then comes back to set things right. That's the passion and resurrection in a nutshell. Many of the uninformed get it.

Jesus never fights a demon.

 

[Firebeetle]

Stone Knife IS there

No stone knife? How does the central scene between Aslan and the witch work then?

I, er, checked the sound today (it's a snow day, and there was a problem with the digital sound not kicking in until reel two, problem is solved now). Naturally, I was forced to watch the movie again, sacrifice for job quality.

For a moment ( I must of blinked or been checking the projector, or something) the stone knife is shown directly. I thought she had just some ordinary blade.

The shears to shave Aslan are absent. He is shaved by the weapons of the monster army instead.

 

[Thanee]

As some of you know, I work part-time as a projectionist. As part of my duties, I often have to watch movies we have put together to insure there are no bad splices or other problems. Tonight, I once again sacrificed my time to watch Chronicles of Narnia.

You have my sympathies. That's really a tough duty. But someone has to do it, I guess.

Bye
Thanee

 

[RigaMortus2]

Jesus never fights a demon.

Maybe not a physical one. Heck, you said it yourself in this very post:

(remember his time in the desert being tempted for days on end)

Is temptation not a "demon"?