Justice League: So, who's seen the Snyder Cut?

[Morrus]

Also, realizing that if I don't have anything positive to write, I can simply not respond.

I think I try to do that, although definitely not always successfully (and its one of the reasons I don't write reviews). I always enjoy it when people talk about stuff they love.

 

[Imaculata]

I think I try to do that, although definitely not always successfully (and its one of the reasons I don't write reviews). I always enjoy it when people talk about stuff they love.

As a general forum rule, I don't post on any forum, unless I feel like I have more than one sentence to say about the subject, good or bad. Anything less and I feel like I'm wasting space. Great one-line jokes excluded of course.

Just stating "I hate X" or "I like X" is pointless in my opinion. It has no value to anyone, because without adding my reasons, there is nothing for others to discuss. And that is the point of a discussion forum after all.

 

[Hatmatter]

I think I try to do that, although definitely not always successfully (and its one of the reasons I don't write reviews). I always enjoy it when people talk about stuff they love.

I have noticed. I think if more people do that, it might end up having a net positive effect. It is hard to know for sure, though, because an entire thread can be dominated and exhausted by only two people who decide to argue to the death about X issue. It is another version, I suppose, of the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[Imaculata]

I have noticed. I think if more people do that, it might end up having a net positive effect.

Honestly, I think an entire thread full of only people raving how great something is, would bore me to tears.
Variety is the spice of life after all. I'm happy when people on the forum dislike something I like, because a contrary opinion is of interest to me.

Likewise, I don't understand it when people express frustration when I state that I don't like something they like, and I also bother to explain why. Surely a polite discussion is the whole point of a forum?

 

[Morrus]

Likewise, I don't understand it when people express frustration when I state that I don't like something they like, and I also bother to explain why. Surely a polite discussion is the whole point of a forum?

I can't speak for other people, but I don't mind that you don't like it (in fact, I don't care whether you like it), it's that I personally find it hard to find a space to enjoy something with other people and just discuss it, ask questions about it etc. Stuff that I enjoy doing. But there's no space for that activity in a thread like this.

Like I said, that's my problem, not yours.

I guess the answer is to do the [+] thread thing more. Make a different type of thread.

Honestly, I think an entire thread full of only people raving how great something is, would bore me to tears.

No, I wouldn't like that either. Very much not the experience I'm after. I'm after much more in-depth discussion of it.

And of course now we're way off topic.

 

[Imaculata]

Well back on topic, it seems like Batman is kind of the odd one out in this whole ensemble. All of the other characters have super powers, and 3 of them are pretty much gods. So I can't help but feel that Batman is kind of in the wrong movie or the wrong team. What is Batman going to do while the others are fighting the big bad? Stop muggers? Shoot minions?

Having not seen the movie myself, does Snyder address this problem in his cut of the film? Is Batman some what useful, or is he the fifth wheel?

 

[Morrus]

Well back on topic, it seems like Batman is kind of the odd one out in this whole ensemble. All of the other characters have super powers, and 3 of them are pretty much gods. So I can't help but feel that Batman is kind of in the wrong movie or the wrong team. What is Batman going to do while the others are fighting the big bad? Stop muggers? Shoot minions?

Having not seen the movie myself, does Snyder address this problem in his cut of the film? Is Batman some what useful, or is he the fifth wheel?

That’s always been a problem with the JLA. The comics and stuff get around it by making him the planner and the detective (and the rich one who provides the gear). In this, he is those things (though it being a superhero movie the plan isn’t exactly Oceans 11). But yeah in the action sequences the others are fighting the likes of Steppenwolf while he handles mooks.

So he has an important narrative role in the story, but not so much the big fights.

 

[ART!]

Ugh. Y'know, people like different things. Can we just go back to saying what we liked or didn't like, rather than declaring ultimate truths like they're some kind of objective reality? This was completely up my alley. I loved it.

In can be undisciplined filmaking and/or indulgent, and still worthy of being liked.

It is - literally and by definition - indulgent. WB gave him tens of millions of dollars after a fan campaign to make a version that would never had made it to theaters, because of the length, and that length is because Snyder got to put everything in the movie that he wanted. It's practically if not actually a vanity project.

The "undisciplined filmmaking" charge stems from the above: the discipline required to make a movie that the studio was prepared to release theatrically was removed from this project. Without that requirement, the pacing isn't like that of a 2-2:45 hour movie, nor is it like that of a tv miniseries. It has no structural requirements other than what the artist wanted. Sometimes that can result in "great art" (and I'm not going to go into what that means or where this work lies on that spectrum), but mostly it results in indulgent messes.

Having now watched the whole thing, I find it less onerous. The first hour and a half or so is just too full of prolonged set-up sequences. It's like if the first 1.5 hours of the LOTR movies was like the FOTR movie's prologue.

Once things finally come together, it starts feeling like a movie rather than a stream of consciousness exercise or like reading the Old Testament. I'm glad Snyder got to make this version, and give everybody the story he had in mind originally. It's a weird beast of a movie-like-thing.

 

[embee]

Well back on topic, it seems like Batman is kind of the odd one out in this whole ensemble. All of the other characters have super powers, and 3 of them are pretty much gods. So I can't help but feel that Batman is kind of in the wrong movie or the wrong team. What is Batman going to do while the others are fighting the big bad? Stop muggers? Shoot minions?

Having not seen the movie myself, does Snyder address this problem in his cut of the film? Is Batman some what useful, or is he the fifth wheel?

It's kind of addressed but, ultimately, not really. Batman is there to put the team together and to absolve himself of his own stupidity because in BvS, he decided to be the World's Most Hotheaded Detective.

Batman, ultimately, has the INT 18 problem. How do you create a character that is infinitely smarter than you are? The result, all too often, is the Batman/RDJ Sherlock solution. You make him an naughty word who's really good at punching people. Because punching people in super slo-mo puts asses in the seats better than hours of a smart person calmly staring at a wall or running batteries of tests and meticulously comparing the results.

 

[Imaculata]

Having now watched the whole thing, I find it less onerous. The first hour and a half or so is just too full of prolonged set-up sequences. It's like if the first 1.5 hours of the LOTR movies was like the FOTR movie's prologue.

Once things finally come together, it starts feeling like a movie rather than a stream of consciousness exercise or like reading the Old Testament. I'm glad Snyder got to make this version, and give everybody the story he had in mind originally. It's a weird beast of a movie-like-thing.

I can't think of any movies that have been in this strange state; To be halted due to a terrible tragedy, and to then have another director come in to finish the movie, only for the original director to come back and do a 4-hour long cut of his version of the film, post theatrical release. It is nuts.

That said, I feel that sometimes movies are cut down for dumb reasons, and to the detriment of the quality of the movie, while other times movies are just way too long and desperately need cuts. I'm looking at you Peter Jackson!

The Hobbit Trilogy for example, did not need to be 3 movies. It could have been easily trimmed down to 1 movie, and it would have probably made for a better movie to boot.

Cutting Saruman's death from Return of the King was a crime, and left a bad taste in my mouth, considering how much filler there is in that movie. Plus it felt like a trick to motivate people to buy the extended cut on DVD. Plus the extended editions add more meandering scenes to the Two Towers with Treebeard, which jarringly interupt the action several times. Seeing more of Middle Earth is a nice novelty, but it comes at the price of pacing. So I find myself in the odd position of both liking the extended cut for 1 or 2 scenes, and hating them for the filler, long run time and bad pacing.

Aliens Special Edition includes some wonderful scenes that I really think should have been included in the theatrical release, but not all of the scenes that are now in the special edition. There is way too much exposition in the special edition, which spoils several of the movie's surprises. Plus I don't think we needed another scene of Newt's high pitched screaming.

Kill Bill was clearly intended to be one movie, and not two volumes. But frankly, I like that it is two movies. Tarantino may have added some filler here and there to pad out the runtime for both movies, but I like most of what he may or may not have added.

With its 4 hour run time, I think Snyder's cut could have easily been made into 2 movies.