Justice League
- Thread starter Morrus
- Start date
Marius Delphus
Adventurer
Oh, good, the Justice League is one of my favorite topics.Teflon Billy said:
It's all about pleasing the fans, right? There has to be *some* tension. For example, in the JLA story arc "Obsidian Age," the heroes were all killed. All of them. Whap. The only question was how they were going to be brought back to life (and how the replacement League would perform).
A number of stunts in many of the issues of JLA had me exulting over their sheer coolness. I also liked the "Batman Protocols" (never, IIRC, referred to by that name, but if you've read the "Tower of Babel" storyline you know what I mean). I'm a little underwhelmed lately, even by the "isn't this cool" stuff, and it all came to a head when a recent Flash stunt in JLA had him moving many, many times the speed of light (I did the math, but I can't remember whether it was thousands or millions of times c)... the one where he single-handedly removed all the inhabitants of a city hit by a nuclear missile to a point 35 miles away. The number of trips he had to make is staggering, and the numbers are all there in the issue... and yet the caption said "near-lightspeed"... just the orders of magnitude involved made that statement seem awfully suspicious.
I agree that the Justice League is all about showing these characters at their finest. That's the stuff that entertains me about the concept. I don't care whether X has a problem with Y because they're both in love with Z. I have no interest whether A thinks B shouldn't be on the team because B has a bad attitude. The Justice League is about kicking butt, taking names, and saving the planet. Or somebody else's planet. Or the universe. You get the idea. Meanwhile handing defeat after defeat to the bad guys, who if they were as efficient as the League might actually win; maybe the League's victory is by a narrow margin, but getting around to beating the bad guys is what they *do* when they put on the tights/bracelets/wings/whatever every morning.
The way I see the JL cartoon is, they are marketing to the 8-14 crowd, the ones who buy toys! or get their parents to buy toys! It all became clear to me after browsing the toy aisle one lazy afternoon... so of course they will fudge the "real" characters a bit. It makes them more accessible. Superman and Wonder Woman are the super-tough ones. Batman is the super-smart one. GL and Hawkgirl are the ones with the super-weapons. Flash is the super-fast one. (Of course, even in the comic books, continuity (such as it is) is nearly always placed second in importance to favor the current plot idea.) So maybe Green Lantern isn't as potent as he should be because this week's threat needs to confound everyone long enough to become a real problem (and thus last a half hour). Superman isn't as indestructible as he should be because this week's threat needs to seem dangerous (and last a half hour).
Trying to figure out "why" sometimes is like metagaming, just without a DM.
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Klaus
First Post
"Obsidian Age"... That singlehandedly turned me off the JL comic, even though the issue where the replacement league is brought together was great, for the tone Batman talked about Nightwing ("He's the best. The only one I could have chosen to lead.").
World War III has the best lines in a post-apocalytptic adventure (or is it meso-apocalyptic?)...
Superman: "Doomsday is cancelled until further notice."
Batman: "I knew you were going to say something like that."
Batman (upon hearing that Doctor Destiny was back): "I'd rather catch a few bankrobbers for a while."
Superman (to Batman): "C'mon, it's the Justice League. You know you love it."
World War III has the best lines in a post-apocalytptic adventure (or is it meso-apocalyptic?)...
Superman: "Doomsday is cancelled until further notice."
Batman: "I knew you were going to say something like that."
Batman (upon hearing that Doctor Destiny was back): "I'd rather catch a few bankrobbers for a while."
Superman (to Batman): "C'mon, it's the Justice League. You know you love it."
Viking Bastard
Adventurer
Yeah, the whole Joe Kelly run is a bit lackluster after Morrison and Waid.
It's spending valuable time that should be going on epicness on stuff like
character development. The characters have their own titles, they can
bloody develop there.
It's spending valuable time that should be going on epicness on stuff like
character development. The characters have their own titles, they can
bloody develop there.
Morrus: Two thoughts:
1) If he has full super-speed, then he's Flash, only much, much better.
2) I'm not totally up-to-date on my Supermanity, but I wasn't sure he had super-speed as much as super-movement -- that is to say, the Flash has super-speed: he thinks at an enhanced rate, and so everything happens for him in bullet-time, if that. Superman just has a really fast flying and running speed, and can punch a lot of times really quickly if necessary. He doesn't think faster than anyone else.
I'm remembering (2) being wrong in "Lois and Clark", but I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that that's not canon.
From what I've seen, Supes' super-speed seems to vary from author to author (sometimes he's "Flash, and also strong and with heat vision", and other times he can fly really fast but doesn't have a super-fast reaction time or super-fast thinking or anything), and I'm fine with the writers writing it out of this incarnation in order to let the Flash shine a bit.
1) If he has full super-speed, then he's Flash, only much, much better.
2) I'm not totally up-to-date on my Supermanity, but I wasn't sure he had super-speed as much as super-movement -- that is to say, the Flash has super-speed: he thinks at an enhanced rate, and so everything happens for him in bullet-time, if that. Superman just has a really fast flying and running speed, and can punch a lot of times really quickly if necessary. He doesn't think faster than anyone else.
I'm remembering (2) being wrong in "Lois and Clark", but I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that that's not canon.
From what I've seen, Supes' super-speed seems to vary from author to author (sometimes he's "Flash, and also strong and with heat vision", and other times he can fly really fast but doesn't have a super-fast reaction time or super-fast thinking or anything), and I'm fine with the writers writing it out of this incarnation in order to let the Flash shine a bit.
Filby
First Post
Slightly off-topic, but anyway...
Yeah. If there was a turning point for the worse in JLA, it was probably "Obsidian Age". While I liked how they set up the League of Ancients, and very much liked most of the Ancients themselves, pretty much everything else about the arc bothered me. Like, all the Ancients getting absorbed by the traitor in their midst (which leads me to wonder how Rama Khan could have been around in the 20th century if he was killed around 3000 BC), meaning that none of them will be available for a comeback without some crazy death-reversing plot thing.
What bothered me the most, I suppose, was the part where Batman's probe goes to the Justice Society brownstone to ask for Captain Marvel's assistance, and there meets a sixteen year-old Billy Batson standing in the middle of the meeting-room who speaks the name of Shazam and becomes the Big Red Cheese, then turns down Batman's offer because the wisdom of Solomon informs him that he's more needed with the JSA. That's nice and everything, but a major part of Captain Marvel's role in the JSA is that none of his teammates know that he's only 16 (well, except Stargirl). In fact, that was a central point in last month's issue, when he left the JSA.
'Course, that only bothered me since I'm nuts about the Justice Society comics series. But still.
The whole "Obsidian Age" arc was just pretty sloppy... it pretty much turned me off of the JLA comics too.
Klaus said:
Yeah. If there was a turning point for the worse in JLA, it was probably "Obsidian Age". While I liked how they set up the League of Ancients, and very much liked most of the Ancients themselves, pretty much everything else about the arc bothered me. Like, all the Ancients getting absorbed by the traitor in their midst (which leads me to wonder how Rama Khan could have been around in the 20th century if he was killed around 3000 BC), meaning that none of them will be available for a comeback without some crazy death-reversing plot thing.
What bothered me the most, I suppose, was the part where Batman's probe goes to the Justice Society brownstone to ask for Captain Marvel's assistance, and there meets a sixteen year-old Billy Batson standing in the middle of the meeting-room who speaks the name of Shazam and becomes the Big Red Cheese, then turns down Batman's offer because the wisdom of Solomon informs him that he's more needed with the JSA. That's nice and everything, but a major part of Captain Marvel's role in the JSA is that none of his teammates know that he's only 16 (well, except Stargirl). In fact, that was a central point in last month's issue, when he left the JSA.
'Course, that only bothered me since I'm nuts about the Justice Society comics series. But still.
The whole "Obsidian Age" arc was just pretty sloppy... it pretty much turned me off of the JLA comics too.
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Well, Superman catches bullets etc. in the comics, so he must have some speedy perception enhancement to go along with his speed - although Flash is faster. That said, in the cartoon, I've never seen him do anything any faster than I could do it!
The power, however you want to define it, isn't there at all in the cartoon - even in a toned down version.
I've only seen the first season, of course, so I don't know if they put it in the second season.
Heh - just noticed that super-hearing hasn't appeared in the cartoon to my knowledge, either.
Lois & Clark ... that was an awful series, in my opinion. I disliked it intensely!
The power, however you want to define it, isn't there at all in the cartoon - even in a toned down version.
I've only seen the first season, of course, so I don't know if they put it in the second season.
Heh - just noticed that super-hearing hasn't appeared in the cartoon to my knowledge, either.
Lois & Clark ... that was an awful series, in my opinion. I disliked it intensely!
We've seen Big Blue move with super speed in Superman: The Animated Series a number of times. Since JL exists in the same cosmology as STAS, it stands to reason that he has it here as well... Although he doesn't seem to use it much.Morrus said:
He does have it. He gives Batman one of his little signals that only he (and dogs) can hear in the first episode. Bats gets hurt, switches on the thing, and Supes comes running. And he's pretty quick about it to, although I don't know if it constitutes super speed.Morrus said:
Yeah... Let's not talk about this.Morrus said:
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