D&D 5E Katana in 5th edition - finesse?

Uchawi

First Post
All I can add to this conversation is a game that is guaranteed to release supplements with 100 plus spells, please do not make my katana a longsword. It is a double standard. Keep everything mundane simple and generic, but spells detailed and without limits.
 

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variant

Adventurer
All I can add to this conversation is a game that is guaranteed to release supplements with 100 plus spells, please do not make my katana a longsword. It is a double standard. Keep everything mundane simple and generic, but spells detailed and without limits.

I agree, it shouldn't be a longsword. You can actually use a longsword one-handed, a katana is completely unbalanced if it isn't used two-handed.
 

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
I agree, it shouldn't be a longsword. You can actually use a longsword one-handed, a katana is completely unbalanced if it isn't used two-handed.
I'm really an ignoramus about weapons, but wasn't the katana also used one-handed? Didn't Musashi use a style in which he used a katana and a wakizashi?
 




dd.stevenson

Super KY
I know that most of the posts in this thread are tongue-in-cheek, but I actually am an expert in Japanese swordsmanship, with seven years practice in a tradition that dates back to the mid 1500s. This is me at the 4:40 mark, demonstrating Yagyu Shinkage-ryu kenjutsu.

...

I do not know what kind of sword mach1.9pants' friend had. It may have been a cheap wall-hanger (katana shaped hunk of iron), it may have been a mogito (non-forged, non-sharp blade made of stainless steel), which can vary widely in quality, it may have been a historic sword from the Edo period, or possibly even the Muromachi period. Perhaps even a modern, forged sword. I do know, however, that I've handled a katana from the Sengoku period, and it was absolutely wonderful, with impeccable balance that gave it an unbelievable lightness. It could easily be wielded with one-hand, and so if it were a D&D weapon it would be a versatile finesse weapon. Not all katana are like that. Heck, not all European two-handers are like that. But some are.
That was a really good post. Thanks for sharing!
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I don't always swing swords. But when I do...I prefer Katanas.

Kill things and take their stuff, my friends.
One of the many times I regret not having Photoshop skills, to put a katana hilt over the Dos Equus man's head.
 

variant

Adventurer
The above statement is completely and utterly wrong.

It's not wrong at all. A katana is balanced for two hands, not one. With only one hand, you can't get the correct cutting arc nor the force needed to cut through anything. Yes, there was a fighting style with dual wielding with a wakizashi much like there was a style with fighting with two rapiers. I regard Nito seiho much as a I regard the Florentine style, largely impractical. Either would really need to be represented by feats to show dedication to such a thing.
 

JonWake

First Post
I know that most of the posts in this thread are tongue-in-cheek, but I actually am an expert in Japanese swordsmanship, with seven years practice in a tradition that dates back to the mid 1500s. This is me at the 4:40 mark, demonstrating Yagyu Shinkage-ryu kenjutsu.

On the subject of European vs Japanese swordsmanship, they are more alike than different. Which is not surprising given that they are both involved in humans using two-feet of sharpened steel to inflict damage on another human, typically armored. Cleaving blows are not a primary tactic in classical swordsmanship that dates back to the actual Warring States period. In these traditions, the goals are cuts and thrusts to the weak points of armor where vulnerable arteries are located. It is not expected that you will ever cut through limbs or the like. In training, big cuts are often emphasized because in the course of actual combat, the influx of adrenaline will reduce the effectiveness of fine motor control, and movements can become small and tentative. The idea is training big will ingrain full, fluid movement, and ideally counteract the psychological and physiological effects of increased adrenaline.

Here are some examples -
The first kata here is for armored combat. The cuts are all to weak points in the armor -- in particular the "winning" side cuts inside the wrist, where there is a seam in the armor, and the ulnar artery.
This clip is from a different style. It's in Japanese, but the demonstration should be clear enough.

Kendo, unfortunately, is not a good example of true combative swordsmanship. An explanation of why would be too long here, but suffice to say that it intends to focus on certain aspects apart from the technical minutia of actual combat with swords. It thus bears as much similarity to that as modern Olympic fencing does to the live blade duels of the 17th century.

On the subject of katana themselves, the history of the katana is a downward progression through the centuries. The finest blades were made during the Kamakura period (1185–1333). These were essentially cavalry sabers, made for slashing from horseback. This is generally considered when the art of swordmaking in Japan reached its peak. Such swords are extremely rare and highly, highly valuable. Most are considered national treasures, and I'm not sure there are any in private possession outside of Japan. The swords of the Sengoku period (1467–c. 1573) where also finally made, but this was a time when mass production of swords was required, leading to a loss of some of the fine techniques of swordsmithing, as quantity was emphasized over quality. Most swords of high value possessed by private collectors are from this era. The swords of the Edo period (1600-1868) where of even less quality, as it was a time of long peace, when swords became prized as status symbols rather than tools of war. These are the most common katana one finds in collections.

Many swords outside of Japan are gunto -- military swords made during the 20th century. These were machine cut, not forged. They are also crappy. Finally, there are gendaito -- modern forged swords. Quality on these can vary. They are invariably made for either decoration, for cutting practice, or for iai (sword-drawing practice), and not for combat. The remaining smiths may not even know what is required to make a katana for actual combat, since those techniques have not been in demand for over 400 years. Still, a low-end modern forged sword is generally going to run around $12,000 or so.

All live blades must be registered. Swords considered of cultural importance (most historic swords of good quality) are not allowed to be taken out of Japan.

I do not know what kind of sword mach1.9pants' friend had. It may have been a cheap wall-hanger (katana shaped hunk of iron), it may have been a mogito (non-forged, non-sharp blade made of stainless steel), which can vary widely in quality, it may have been a historic sword from the Edo period, or possibly even the Muromachi period. Perhaps even a modern, forged sword. I do know, however, that I've handled a katana from the Sengoku period, and it was absolutely wonderful, with impeccable balance that gave it an unbelievable lightness. It could easily be wielded with one-hand, and so if it were a D&D weapon it would be a versatile finesse weapon. Not all katana are like that. Heck, not all European two-handers are like that. But some are.

Awesome! I suspected that there wasn't much difference, but to outsiders the martial traditions of kenjutsu can be pretty opaque.

As far as Strength Vs. Dexterity goes, 'realistically', once you have the requisite strength to move the sword around, there's a bit of diminishing returns on damage. It's really all about positioning, timing, and intent, none of which are independently modeled in D&D.
 

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