kind of embarassed to admit it, but...

[Leatherhead]

Well, the skill allows him to use the scroll as if it were on his (that is, the Rogue's) class spell list. He doesn't use the scroll as if he has the sorcerer class list, or as if he has the wizard class list; he treats the spell as being a Rogue spell.

So he uses whatever ability score Rogues use when casting spells without using UMD

-Hyp.

Actually, no.

When using UMD to cast from a scroll, you emulate another classes ability to cast spells. You use the ability score that would be used to cast the spell for whatever class that you are emulating. (int for wizard spells, wis for clerics, cha for bards, etc...) If your that score is not high enough, you can use a separate UMD check -15 to substitute for that score.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, no.

When using UMD to cast from a scroll, you emulate another classes ability to cast spells.

Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

I guess I just assumed that when they said "Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list", they meant that Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

-Hyp.

 

[Leatherhead]

Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

I guess I just assumed that when they said "Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list", they meant that Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

-Hyp.

Yeah, it is not very clear in the main entry for scrolls. Fortunately they clarify it a bit under the entry for emulating ability scores.

Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

I guess I just assumed that when they said "Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list", they meant that Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.

-Hyp.

this is in the UMD entry as well:

Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check.

 

[jaelis]

So, if a wizard came across a scroll of Otto's Irresistable Dance penned by a bard as a 6th level spell, could he
a) not cast it, because OID isn't on his list of sixth-level spells?
b) cast as an eighth-level spell?
c) cast it as a sixth-level spell?
d) none of the above?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, if a wizard came across a scroll of Otto's Irresistable Dance penned by a bard as a 6th level spell, could he
a) not cast it, because OID isn't on his list of sixth-level spells?
b) cast as an eighth-level spell?
c) cast it as a sixth-level spell?
d) none of the above?

He casts it as a 6th level spell, as long as his Intelligence is at least 16.

The scroll is arcane, and Otto's Irresistible Dance is on his class spell list, so he is able to activate the scroll. And the scroll has a 6th level spell on it.

If he scribes that spell into his spellbook, he scribes it as an 8th level wizard spell.

Yeah, it is not very clear in the main entry for scrolls. Fortunately they clarify it a bit under the entry for emulating ability scores.

It's clear in the main entry for scrolls, and they don't clarify it under emulating ability scores; rather, they contradict it.

Use a Scroll states that you activate the scroll as if the spell were on your class list. Emulating an Ability Score refers to "the class you're emulating when you try..."... but Use a Scroll doesn't require you to emulate a class. Rather, it adds the spell to the list for your class.

-Hyp.

 

[Leatherhead]

It's clear in the main entry for scrolls, and they don't clarify it under emulating ability scores; rather, they contradict it.

Use a Scroll states that you activate the scroll as if the spell were on your class list. Emulating an Ability Score refers to "the class you're emulating when you try..."... but Use a Scroll doesn't require you to emulate a class. Rather, it adds the spell to the list for your class.

-Hyp.

No, it is not clear. For instance, I would like to point out that classes such as rogues do not cast spells, and thus do not have spell lists to modify. What do you do in that situation? Add to a non existent list, or emulate the list of a different class? The entry under abilities would lead us to believe you can emulate the spellcasting ability of a class that can cast that spell in order to use a scroll.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No, it is not clear.

Certainly it is.

"as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list" means "as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list", not "as if you had a spell list of a different class that happens to have that particular spell".

For instance, I would like to point out that classes such as rogues do not cast spells, and thus do not have spell lists to modify. What do you do in that situation? Add to a non existent list, or emulate the list of a different class?

You treat it as if you had the spell on your list.

Now, how that's adjudicated might not be clear, but that that is what needs to be adjudicated certainly is.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Now, how that's adjudicated might not be clear, but that that is what needs to be adjudicated certainly is.

That sentence is certainly not clear, Mr. President, depending on your definition of "is".

 

[moritheil]

Rather, it adds the spell to the list for your class.

-Hyp.

Wouldn't it just allow you to pretend that you fulfilled that requirement? I wouldn't even drag "your class" into it.