D&D 5E Knock Unconscious and Massive Damage

[Sunseeker]

Yeah, that was more or less the thought process I followed. But at the same time I wanted to go through a route like what Iserith describes, as it seemed odd that the rogue, an expert assassin, would be unable to at least gauge/control his own strikes. But since the rules do not allow for characters to voluntarily lower their damage, I was in a bind.

The sap helped solve the problem for the immediate time, but since after that session the group finally decided to convert our main campaign to 5e, I was afraid I had been misunderstanding the rules.

I know that 5th still allows you to say "I only do enough damage to kill it." but I still question if that's fitting here. If I'm using my BFW to attack someone with all my might even so far as to ensure I deal extra damage since I don't know their HP total, I really don't think I should be able to turn around and say "wellllll i just hit him hard enough to knock them out."

 

[iserith]

Rogue: "I hurry through the bushes and try to knock the stable boy unconcious with the handle of my blade.

If the assassin was hidden and is fleeter of foot than the stable boy, I'd respond at this point with "The stable boy lets out a startled yelp before falling face-first in the dirt. A voice calls out from the stable in response. 'You alright, boy?' What do you do?" No rolls, no mechanics needed.

Me: "You can hear a couple of women walking into the music hall while chatting. You get a glimpse in the mirror; both maids, one going in your direction. Neither has noticed you"
Rogue: "I sneak underneath the harpsichord and knock her out. Carefully"

More or less the same response for me here as above. "You knock out the maid and the porcelain tea service she's carrying tips over and threatens to crash upon the marble floor. What do you do?" It's possible he didn't get a good look at the maid having only seen them through mirrors while hiding under a harpsichord. So as above, I'm ignoring the need for dice and mechanics on account of the player's stated approach, while introducing new complications to spice up the scene (the voice that calls out, the crashing tea service). Dealing with those complications might be uncertain and call for die rolls depending on how the player responds.

 

[Paraxis]

You can fireball a group of peasants into unconsciousness, or meteor storm them if you wish so I have no issues with someone wanting to assassinate sneak attack them with an arrow into unconsciousness.

 

[KingsRule77]

Why not let him use the hilt of his blade? Problem solved.

 

[Forged Fury]

You can fireball a group of peasants into unconsciousness, or meteor storm them if you wish so I have no issues with someone wanting to assassinate sneak attack them with an arrow into unconsciousness.

I think you can only do the knock unconscious trick with melee attacks, unless you're referring to something else.

 

[Paraxis]

I think you can only do the knock unconscious trick with melee attacks, unless you're referring to something else.

You are right, I was thinking of the 4e rules which included any type of attack.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Knocking somebody unconscious was one of the first house rules I put together (as it was in many of the earlier editions). I want to encourage not murdering everybody, and I also want to be able to model the types of scenes from books, movies, TV shows, etc.

However, this has to be countered by the fact that being able to bypass hit points entirely and taking somebody out of the fight must be addressed with care. Particularly because the possible attempts will be far greater against the PCs than for them.

So here's how we've handled it (after some modifications) and it seems to be working well.

First, being unconscious has nothing to do with how many hit points you have.

Unconscious
While unconscious, you make a death save each round. Three successes means you regain consciousness. Three failures before three successes simply resets the count.

Sap
I put together some rules for special maneuvers, such as a sap. You have disadvantage on the attack, and the target gets a saving throw DC 8 + your attack modifier) or you impose one of several conditions, depending on the type of attack. None of the possible conditions totally removes them from the fight.

In the case of sap you incapacitate the target until the end of your next turn if they fail their save, unless your attack is a critical hit. In which case they are knocked unconscious if they fail their save.

Critical Hit
The other opportunity for knocking a creature unconscious is a critical hit with a bludgeoning weapon. In our house rule, a critical hit does double damage, and the target must make a Constitution save (same DC). If they fail the save by more than 5 points, they are knocked unconscious.

We feel this is more realistic, more interesting in a story sense, and not likely to happen so frequently that it becomes a problem. Even at higher levels, the saving throw DC is not so high as to be unreasonable.

In the case of the assassin, their advantage to attack is countered by the disadvantage of the special maneuver, so they would just have a normal chance to hit. That still gives them a better chance than other characters, but not so much that it's unbalancing.

Incidentally, the other conditions that we allow for a special maneuver are blinded, prone, restrained, or suffocating (1 + CON bonus/rounds, minimum 1 until unconscious. So I guess that's the other option). Suffocation can be caused by garroting somebody, DEX save to avoid, Grapple to escape in subsequent rounds.

Ilbranteloth

 

[KingsRule77]

A lot of overthinking. Butt end of a weapon. How many times have film and tv heroes KO'ed a minion with a hilt or guard to the face? Or the butt of an axe? Do enough damage and to KO. No problem,

 

[Ilbranteloth]

A lot of overthinking. Butt end of a weapon. How many times have film and tv heroes KO'ed a minion with a hilt or guard to the face? Or the butt of an axe? Do enough damage and to KO. No problem,

Yes it happens a lot in the movies. But without rules to adjudicate the situation, every combat turns into a simple question of who strikes first, because they would just knock everybody else out. How much damage is enough damage? On the other hand, I've never liked the idea that you had to bring them to the brink of death (0 hit points) to KO them either.

The basic rules we put together are actually very simple: Disadvantage to attack, failed saving throw imposes condition. Knocking unconscious requires a critical in most cases. Most of the time the attacker tries to be in position where they would normally have advantage, so they can negate the disadvantage. That's it.

Considering how frequently people are actually KO'd in boxing, head hits in football, hockey, etc I think it's a pretty decent representation.

Ilbranteloth

 

[KingsRule77]

Meh. As usual with our kind we over do they need for codified rules for every situation. A lot of die rolling for no real purpose.