D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[Maxperson]

As has been shown, all of thise age brackets are capable of buying every book WotC releases every year. Who is more likely to do so, though? People who already own years worth of books, or people to whom it is all new? People buying diapers and paying a mortgage, or enthusiastic youngsters with zero obligations?

This is just a reality if the market for a game ained at yourh, not sure why you are so adamant about this.

The ones most likely to buy the new books are the ones who want them because they are 5e AND who have enough spendable money that the books don't represent a large percentage of their spendable income. The older crowd.

What you seem to want to ignore is that the vast majority of books released by WotC are monster books, which the older folks don't have and would need, adventures like Hoard of the Dragon queen which the older folks don't have, books like Xanathar's which have crunch that the older folk don't have, and finally new settings like Theros and the MtG settings which the older folks don't have. But yes, the settings like Spelljammer and Eberron which many(but not all) older players have would be something that a lot of them would choose not to buy.

There are no "years worth of books" that cover the new stuff.

 

[Reef]

I bought a more D&D stuff in my youth than I do now. I'm older, but my budget has moved from buying tickets, toys and gas to paying a car payment, mortgage and food. I owned nearly all the WotC 3e/3.5 books during its run (excluding ones I had no interest in) but only a fraction of the much smaller amount of 5e ones. Not everyone grows older and finds they have more disposable income. Sometimes, it's less.

Not only that, but as we get older, we tend to need less new stuff. I have 5+ editions worth of D&D books on the shelf beside me. I sure don't need more, so I'm pretty picky about which ones I buy. A new player is more likely to buy everything that comes out, because it's all new and shiny to them. Me, do I really need yet another owlbear statblock?

 

[mamba]

You're going to have to prove that older than teen = grognard dude. Not even all 50+ year olds are grognards. The only one conflating here is you. You're conflating age with grognard.

you keep making my points for me and somehow think they refute what I wrote

Here is what I wrote

Not sure about the vital bit. Grognards to me have played the game a long time and do bring people into the game, but that game is by now OSR, not 5e

and your reply

It's the medium and grog nards that tend to have most of the disposable income to actually pay for D&D products. You need to target them at LEAST as much as the new nards.

So, I say grognards are not that important and you say both ‘yes they are’ and ‘old people are not all grognards but buy the most stuff’. How is that contradicting my statement?

 

[Micah Sweet]

and given the approval they get I can safely say the majority of old players like then

Since there are so many more new players, I don't think you can say that with any certainly.

 

[Reef]

Well, as you say, the game has definitely evolved in a direction I don't like. The only part of that that's really upsetting to me (apart from what they've done with the settings), is that the conversation has moved on to the next shiny thing for most folks, and I really like talking about D&D. Now I'm inundated with talk about the playtest, and upcoming WotC products, and VTTs, and poster after poster talking about how great something I really dislike actually is. And I get that my opinion doesn't matter, but it still hurts.

How are the conversations you want to have being curtailed? I get you don't want to talk about the playtest, but you could just avoid those threads and talk about what you do want. The new edition isn't out yet, I'm sure discussion about the actual current mechanics would have traction. And I know you're a fan of the settings...I'm sure people would love to talk about that, if you have something to say.

Heck, there's a series of threads about the heir to a minor duchy trying to adventure with a ridiculous number of dragon bodyguards, and even that is getting discussion. I can't imagine a thread about your favourite 2e setting wouldn't get some views.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It happens, that was 2e mad 3e for us - couldn’t really stomach what they did to “my game!” Of course, I didn’t insult people by suggesting people could only engage with the “next shinny thing,” so I guess we handled better than you.

Don't appreciate the personal insult.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Don't appreciate the personal insult.

I did not appreciate you insulting everyone (including me) on these boards.

But you’re correct I shouldn’t have gone down that road. I’m sorry.

 

[Remathilis]

Well, as you say, the game has definitely evolved in a direction I don't like. The only part of that that's really upsetting to me (apart from what they've done with the settings), is that the conversation has moved on to the next shiny thing for most folks, and I really like talking about D&D. Now I'm inundated with talk about the playtest, and upcoming WotC products, and VTTs, and poster after poster talking about how great something I really dislike actually is. And I get that my opinion doesn't matter, but it still hurts.

The issue is that YOU choose to engage with those topics. If you have no interest in One D&D (which is all about the playtest and shiny new things) then don't go in there to complain about how they are ruining the game. Further, they have an absolute right to talk about things that excite them. They don't need your permission: this isn't MicahSweetWorld.

But I get you like being the polemic; to stand among people and yuck their yum. Which is fine, if you get satisfaction from contrarianism, then do it. But don't expect people to kowtow to your opinions.

 

[mamba]

Since there are so many more new players, I don't think you can say that with any certainly.

the age distribution seems to favor that perspective however

I think it is a stretch to argue that the 11% who are 40+ largely fall into the 15% or so percent that view the changes unfavorably (technically I am not even sure they do, they are just not much in favor of them, that still leaves neutral / do not care)

 

[Micah Sweet]

The issue is that YOU choose to engage with those topics. If you have no interest in One D&D (which is all about the playtest and shiny new things) then don't go in there to complain about how they are ruining the game. Further, they have an absolute right to talk about things that excite them. They don't need your permission: this isn't MicahSweetWorld.

But I get you like being the polemic; to stand among people and yuck their yum. Which is fine, if you get satisfaction from contrarianism, then do it. But don't expect people to kowtow to your opinions.

I never have. But the talk here has always mostly been about the current and future game, so naturally if that becomes unpleasant for you a large portion of the conversation goes sour.