Kyton - how to attack with it?

[Kershek]

I need clarification about the Kyton's ability to control all chains within 20 feet.

Let's say a Kyton comes into a room with 4 spiked chains draped over its body. The first thing it does is drop the chains on the floor in front of him. Could he then use all 4 of them to attack people within 20 feet of him as an attack action using his attack bonuses? Does he even need to hold them? What is the limit to the amount of spiked chains that he could control?

 

[smetzger]

Looks to me like:
1) no restriction on number of chains controlled, they just need to be within 20 ft.
2) "These chains attack as effectively as the kyton itself." So two +9 melee attacks for 1d8+1 for each chain.

Only question I have is since the Kyton has DR 20/+2, do these controlled chains penetrate DR 20/+2? Strict reading would indicate so, but that would make for one tough CR 6 customer.

 

[Kershek]

Ok, so it can control any number of chains but only attack with 2 of them?

Could chains 20 feet away from the Kyton be extended 15 feet so it can attack someone 35 feet away?

I could only imagine if these chains were attached to the ground and then animated to wrap around a party member and hold them in place. Would they be grappled? How would you roll the grapple check? Nasty...

 

[Kwalish Kid]

Grapple is definitely the way to go with the chains. I'd just have them grapple just like the kyton would. If the chains were really small then I wouldn't let them grapple.

I had a kyton fight in a room filled with chains dangling from the ceiling. The kyton had some serious cover and concealment from the chains near the ceiling holding him their. The chains that dropped down could attack and grapple the PCs below.

I rule that if a chain pins a character, then the chain is effectively tied, and the kyton can let the chain sit there and concentrate on other matters. To escape the chain, the character must make an escape artist check vs. the result of the check to pin. (You might also allow a strength check.)

Let's face it. The Kyton isn't great, even with a couple of chains. If the PCs fight on in its lair, it should have every advantage.

 

[Kershek]

So if a character chooses to attack the chains (say, because the chains are trying to grapple and they have the Close Quarters Fighting feat from S&F), how much damage can the chains take before they are destroyed? Or would you have that chain cut in half and then the Kyton would just re-extend both chains to 15 feet each as per his ability?

The Close Quarters Fighting feat allows for an attack of opportunity when an enemy attempts a grapple you.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

Every grapple attempt allows an AOO unless the grappler has some special ability that says otherwise. Close-quarters fighting allows you to supercede that special ability. Note that in the original Sword and Fist, the first special ability of the feat is moot, as if you damage an opponent with the AOO, the grapple automatically fails (pg 137, PHB). The kyton does not have the improved grapple special ability.

If the controlled chains attack, you'd just have to adjudicate the hardness and hp of the chain as per usual. The chains, as per PHB, pg 136, have a hardness of 10 and 5 hps. To hit a weapon, also as per pg 136, you have to make an opposed attack roll.

If you did strike the chain, then the grapple attempt would be foiled. I think that any damage to the chain would be healed the next round. Or else the kyton would just add another 15' on the end. I guess there's supposed to be a limit to how much chain the kyton can produce, but I'm not sure it really matters. If the kytons want to bury their plane under an infinite pile of chains, who am I to tell them no?

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

I don't have his description, but I don't think a Kyton's chains count as natural weapons, so they would not penetrate DR.

As far as a grappled chain no longer needing the Kyton's concentration, I would say that it's an opposed grapple while he is concentrating on it, and a Use Rope check if he is no longer controling them. Any chain would be destroyed if it lost all it's HP, regardless of size.

 

[dkilgo]

I understand the description of the Kyton's "Dancing Chains" ability as follows.

Quote:
" A kyton's most awesome attack is its ability to control ALL chains within 20 feet as a standard aciton making them dance or move as it wishes. In addition, the kyton can increase the chains length by up to 15 feet and cause them to sprout razor edged barbs. These chains attack as effectively as the kyton itself."
-Monster Manual I

I interpret this meaning that no matter how many chains are within 20 feet of the kyton he can make them dance. NO MATTER how many!

Also, the kyton does not have to concentrate to keep these chains dancing, or even keep concentrating to make them attack. ALL the chains act as though they are seperate entities. Only they would act on the kyton's initiative. I believe it would take a standard action to redirect the chains to a new target, and that is a standard action per chain. But, all the chains would attack as a kyton would attack. That is with an attack bonus of +9 melee.

The kyton only controls those chains that are within 20 feet of him. If the chains that he controls are grounded in some fashion, and the kyton moves away from the chains that he was controling, then the chains he did control are no longer under his control. As a standard action he could animate the chains surrounding the new area where he stands, but the others are dead, for all intensive purposes. Also, the chains that are at that 20 foot range could infact reach beyond the inital 20 feet. So long as the majority of the chain stays within the initial 20 foot effected area. Hence, where the extra 15 feet come into play.

Nasty? Yes, but I believe that if you had a properly equiped party they would be able to handle the Kyton. Not without problems, mind you.

If I am interpreting this wrong someone please tell me. Because I am looking forward to putting a few kyton's in my campaign in the near future.

 

[Stalker0]

I understand the description of the Kyton's "Dancing Chains" ability as follows.

Quote:
" A kyton's most awesome attack is its ability to control ALL chains within 20 feet as a standard aciton making them dance or move as it wishes. In addition, the kyton can increase the chains length by up to 15 feet and cause them to sprout razor edged barbs. These chains attack as effectively as the kyton itself."
-Monster Manual I

I interpret this meaning that no matter how many chains are within 20 feet of the kyton he can make them dance. NO MATTER how many!

Also, the kyton does not have to concentrate to keep these chains dancing, or even keep concentrating to make them attack. ALL the chains act as though they are seperate entities. Only they would act on the kyton's initiative. I believe it would take a standard action to redirect the chains to a new target, and that is a standard action per chain. But, all the chains would attack as a kyton would attack. That is with an attack bonus of +9 melee.

The kyton only controls those chains that are within 20 feet of him. If the chains that he controls are grounded in some fashion, and the kyton moves away from the chains that he was controling, then the chains he did control are no longer under his control. As a standard action he could animate the chains surrounding the new area where he stands, but the others are dead, for all intensive purposes. Also, the chains that are at that 20 foot range could infact reach beyond the inital 20 feet. So long as the majority of the chain stays within the initial 20 foot effected area. Hence, where the extra 15 feet come into play.

Nasty? Yes, but I believe that if you had a properly equiped party they would be able to handle the Kyton. Not without problems, mind you.

If I am interpreting this wrong someone please tell me. Because I am looking forward to putting a few kyton's in my campaign in the near future.

I agree with dkilgo on this one. The kyton is an interesting monster, because its power is dependent on the number of chains around. You can make the kyton as strong or as weak as you wish by the number of chains in the room.


hehe, also curious, can the kyton control chain mail

 

[dkilgo]

That is a good question. I would really like to know if the kyton could control chainmail.

Could anyone come up with a reason why not?