D&D 5E L&L 6/23 A Living Rule Set

This approach actually insures a bit of job security for Mike Mearls and others on the development team which I think is also important for the long-term health of this edition of the game. I hope it works out for them on both counts.
 

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It seems like I might be the only one who has serious mixed feelings about this. For one thing, I think some posters didn't read the article carefully enough.

If we do identify a problem area, the next step depends on the magnitude of the change. Some alterations are simple and easy. If a rule is unclear, we can include an update in a FAQ or similar resource. If a number is wrong or a rule is missing a keyword, we can update future printings of the relevant books and compile a list of errata. For changes of this magnitude, we’ll aim to provide annual updates. We’ll make actual rules changes (as opposed to updating a FAQ) only when absolutely necessary. If players and DMs feel they need to replace their books because of these changes, we’ve gone too far.

Many problems are not as simple to change, however.

In other words, Mearls is distinguishing between two different kinds of updates: the "simple and easy" kind, and the "greater magnitude" kind. He says that the "simple and easy" kind shouldn't make you feel like you need to buy new books. That line does not apply to the "greater magnitude" kind of changes. Here is what he says about the "greater magnitude" changes:

A revision significant enough to require serious changes to printed books should offer multiple obvious improvements to the game. If you’re buying new books, it should be because you want to—not because we’re twisting your arm. In an ideal world, updates to our printed products should simply capture the incremental updates and revisions that have proven widely popular.

He says he doesn't want anyone to feel strong-armed into buying new books. But an entirely new version of a core class—which has prove widely popular and is now integrated into a new printing of the PHB—is exactly the thing that would make me feel strong-armed into buying a new PHB.

That isn't what I want. I want the designers to be confident enough in the rules that they're publishing right now that they won't ever replace classes or other major game elements wholesale. Obviously there will be quirks and problems, but I was hoping that the whole point of the public playtest was to ensure that there won't be any quirk and problems serious enough to warrant completely re-writing a class, and publishing the new version in a revision of the PHB. Mearls can claim all he wants that what he's describing here is significantly different from the 3.0 > 3.5 transition, but it isn't. I'll feel obligated to buy new books just the same.

I would much rather have their assurance that errata will be kept to an absolute minimum. I would much rather have a promise that all of the errata for the PHB ever published will fit neatly onto a single attractive page that I can print out and then tape into the back cover of the PHB.


On the other hand, even if a few major overhauls get integrated into the PHB, I can see the benefit of that approach over simply moving on to a completely new edition in 5 years. I would prefer that 5th edition last for 20 years without any "major overhaul"-type changes, but that might be unrealistic. It seems like the choice is really between (a) I have to buy the sixth edition core rulebooks in 5 years because we've moved on to a new edition yet again, and (b) I have to buy new fifth edition core rulebooks in 5 years because a number of "major overhaul" changes have been integrated into them.

Given that choice, I can see the benefit of the latter. I have to re-buy a bunch of expensive books either way, but at least in the latter scenario I'm getting an extremely polished version of a rules-set, whereas in the former scenario I'm just moving on to another new rules-set full of problems.
 

[Old man voice] Yes, and get off my lawn! [Old man voice] The question is, why do they refuse to do it right when there are plenty of reference works to look at. In fact, this guy obviously knows what he's doing, so why do it wrong deliberately? As someone said, fantasy (and science fiction) need to seem more realistic than normal forms of fiction for people to believe in them. In my (not so humble) opinion, they're just shooting themselves in the foot by having impossible to believe in artwork. On the other hand, I suppose that if only a handful of us actually care about such things, which, unfortunately, seems to be the case, then it isn't hurting them at all. Darn it!

Asking them to do it different, when the overwhelming majority like how they are doing it, is itself asking them to do it wrong :)
 

I was debating starting a different thread to discuss about the dwarf art.

I really like it. Solid work. There is a weight about him. And I enjoy the small details--the axe in his boot, the skull on the end of the maul, the strand of hair that's out of place, etc.

Thaumaturge.

Yeah I am liking all of the 5e art I have seen so far, the 4e stuff was often too cartoony for me so the return to a bit more (fantasy) realism is nice.
 

He says he doesn't want anyone to feel strong-armed into buying new books. But an entirely new version of a core class—which has prove widely popular and is now integrated into a new printing of the PHB—is exactly the thing that would make me feel strong-armed into buying a new PHB.

I think you're reading way too much into his comments. I did not take away at all that they would consider revising an entire class and put out a new PHB just on that. Really, the revisions he seems to be alluding to would be items like "Second Wind now gives temp HP, not permanent HP." or vice versa which can be corrected in a newer printing, and handled with errata for older printings.
 


He says he doesn't want anyone to feel strong-armed into buying new books. But an entirely new version of a core class—which has prove widely popular and is now integrated into a new printing of the PHB—is exactly the thing that would make me feel strong-armed into buying a new PHB.

You realise this is your issue, right? He specifically says that they want people to be able to keep using older versions of the rules if they have no problem with them. Which has always been the way of things, by the way (there are active players of every single edition of D&D, after all), but they're now making that possibility more explicit and easier to manage, which should assist those who have trouble saying "no".

That isn't what I want. I want the designers to be confident enough in the rules that they're publishing right now that they won't ever replace classes or other major game elements wholesale. Obviously there will be quirks and problems, but I was hoping that the whole point of the public playtest was to ensure that there won't be any quirk and problems serious enough to warrant completely re-writing a class, and publishing the new version in a revision of the PHB. Mearls can claim all he wants that what he's describing here is significantly different from the 3.0 > 3.5 transition, but it isn't. I'll feel obligated to buy new books just the same.

I would much rather have their assurance that errata will be kept to an absolute minimum. I would much rather have a promise that all of the errata for the PHB ever published will fit neatly onto a single attractive page that I can print out and then tape into the back cover of the PHB.

That was one of the points of the public playtest, but we live in a place called "reality" where there is always a possibility that the best laid plans won't quite go the way they were intended. It would be lovely if we could use magic to cause future potential errata to conform to precise word counts and dimensions that make us feel more comfortable, but unfortunately we only get to cast spells in the imaginary world of the game.

It continuously astonishes me how some people can take the strongest assurances from the developers that they're looking out for our best interests in every way that they possibly can, and twist them into whatever is the most horrible outcome that that person can possibly imagine. I'd almost applaud your imaginative might if it wasn't so exhaustingly depressing.
 

So the actual game system is going in some kind of "maintenance mode" with different levels of fixes and changes? Which would be sort of optional?

This calls for a detailed spreadsheet to control one's game, I think. :) "OK, we're using the Basic Game as of 2015/07/03, with these options taken form the 2nd printing of the PHB. All errata to the PHB are applied, as well as the following udates. Oh, but not the latest update for Magic Missile, and the duration for the Flight spell remains houseruled." Pretty hard to organise.

Another thing is the people working at the game. Tasks would shift more and more from designing new elements oder (sub-) systems to maintenenace, analysing data and evaluating gamers' responses, as well as a healthy dose of administration. I'm really curious how this will work out.
 

They are really in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position. They could just print the books and leave them as is, with only a misprint errata document, a la TSR. But 5e has many more moving parts than TSR D&D, so there's a far greater likelihood of things being broken (i.e., not working as intended.) So that option is sure to earn them the ire of the fans. OTOH, a significant minority at the least had issues with the regular errata updates and rule changes of 4e, so that option is also likely to draw them fan ire.

Not surprisingly, given their design paradigm in 5e, they tried to take a middle road. This is sure to gain them fan ire on the extremes. Their only hope is that it satisfies the majority in the center.
 

It seems like the choice is really between (a) I have to buy the sixth edition core rulebooks in 5 years because we've moved on to a new edition yet again, and (b) I have to buy new fifth edition core rulebooks in 5 years because a number of "major overhaul" changes have been integrated into them.

Given that choice, I can see the benefit of the latter. I have to re-buy a bunch of expensive books either way, but at least in the latter scenario I'm getting an extremely polished version of a rules-set, whereas in the former scenario I'm just moving on to another new rules-set full of problems.
I agree with this. I don't care too much about buying a new version of the book (sure, I'd rather not spend that 30 bucks, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things). What I mostly care about is that the game I play for 8 hours every week is as well-designed as possible.
 

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