D&D 5E L&L: new playtest packet 10/15, Druid update

[Olgar Shiverstone]

My druids will all get Duck Form: you can turn into any animal you want, but always end up as a duck.

 

[Mistwell]

I was rolling in my seat giggling like a little girl when I read the article.

This is all a really big joke right? Right?

What's your problem with it?

 

[JamesonCourage]

Very unhappy with the temporary HP issue, and pretty unhappy with gaining the stats of the animal. But, I can't make any final judgments until I see the stats of all the animals that you can turn into.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I like the simplicity of just gaining the animal's stat block when you turn into it, though I'm still a bit leery of the hp idea. I'll have to see how it turns out in play, of course, but it seems to me like it could potentially lead to balance issues. This could give druids a massive amount of temporary hit points over the course of the day. It also makes it so that using weaker forms is far less useful, even less so than it is now. Why spend a daily use of wild shape to turn into a hound when you can turn into a tiger or bear? It would be fine if they had different costs, but all forms cost the same thing.

This also means that it dashes any hopes I had of wild shape being at-will. I really hate the daily limit on it, but since it gives you a massive number of temp hp, the daily limit is necessary. I've never liked the daily limit on it. As long as the forms the druid can turn into aren't any more powerful than what a regular character can do, why does there need to be a limit on it? It's also very annoying because you can't communicate in the animal forms, so the druid is either forced to remain quiet the whole time he's an animal, or has to turn back in order to speak. They could fix this by letting druids speak in animal forms, though.

The thing I really dislike is how the "combat" forms are only available to circle of the moon druids. The result has always been that CoM druids are way better at shapeshifting than CoL druids, but CoL druids are only a little bit better at spellcasting. The result? CoL druids suck.

 

[n00bdragon]

What's your problem with it?

I dunno, the free HP? Maybe it's the fact that resources intended for DM-use (monster statblocks) must now be designed at such a power level that druids can use them without being broken. Perhaps it's the fact that while every other classes are neatly defined within the scope of the player's handbook (except casters who invariably get the lion's share of new material in splatbooks in the form of new spells) the druid (in addition to being a caster with the aforementioned new spell benefits) now has access to various monster entries as additional resources to use at the table. Perhaps it's the fact that I know deep down in my heart that it'll never be just animals either. Sooner or later a splat will give us a feat that allows the druid to wildshape into just about anything and that's when this train is really going to run off the rails. Maybe, just maybe, it's hilarious because this same mistake has been made in three editions of D&D and I guess now it's become something of a sacred cow.

Other than those little quibbles? Nothing at all. Looks perfect to me.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Sooner or later a splat will ... and that's when this train is really going to run off the rails.

Dude, it's D&D. Of course that's going to happen.

 

[n00bdragon]

Dude, it's D&D. Of course that's going to happen.

That doesn't really invalidate the criticism at all. It only affirms it.

 

[Mistwell]

I dunno, the free HP? Maybe it's the fact that resources intended for DM-use (monster statblocks) must now be designed at such a power level that druids can use them without being broken. Perhaps it's the fact that while every other classes are neatly defined within the scope of the player's handbook (except casters who invariably get the lion's share of new material in splatbooks in the form of new spells) the druid (in addition to being a caster with the aforementioned new spell benefits) now has access to various monster entries as additional resources to use at the table. Perhaps it's the fact that I know deep down in my heart that it'll never be just animals either. Sooner or later a splat will give us a feat that allows the druid to wildshape into just about anything and that's when this train is really going to run off the rails. Maybe, just maybe, it's hilarious because this same mistake has been made in three editions of D&D and I guess now it's become something of a sacred cow.

Other than those little quibbles? Nothing at all. Looks perfect to me.

And you thought your opinion was self evident, or were you just telling people you were rolling your eyes for some sense of satisfaction from telling people, or...?

I'm trying to figure out why you think the cryptic snark followed by the sarcasm was a useful thing to do. Did you at least vent enough that you feel better?

 

[MerricB]

Maybe it's the fact that resources intended for DM-use (monster statblocks) must now be designed at such a power level that druids can use them without being broken.

Fact? Not at all. That's the fact of play in 3E, where Hit Dice determined the monsters you could turn into (and caused a great number of problems).

When the druid's list of animals is not "any animal you like" but "choose one from this list", there's no such problem. If an animal causes balance issues, it just isn't placed on the list.

Looking over the article, I realise this isn't spelt out there, but it was in the recent podcast. You'll find it at about 7:50 on the podcast - they emphasize that they give a list of forms that the druid can turn into, and it's a list they've made sure they're okay with the druid turning into. As the game evolves, it may be added to, but every time they do they want to be sure it isn't something that has weird repercussions.

Cheers!

 

[Iosue]

I dunno, the free HP? Maybe it's the fact that resources intended for DM-use (monster statblocks) must now be designed at such a power level that druids can use them without being broken. Perhaps it's the fact that while every other classes are neatly defined within the scope of the player's handbook (except casters who invariably get the lion's share of new material in splatbooks in the form of new spells) the druid (in addition to being a caster with the aforementioned new spell benefits) now has access to various monster entries as additional resources to use at the table.

So, I'm guessing you haven't even looked at the playtest? Because the Druid player doesn't even have to look at the Bestiary for their wild shape forms. They're all right there in the class description.