Lame Prestige Classes

[Xombie Master]

Threatening people on the internet is like booing at the special olympics!

QUOTE]No, no, the Arcane Hierophant is a druid/wizard PrC from Races of the Wild![/QUOTE]
Smart A$$!

Wait a second here. It was bad enough when I had to listen to the obnoxious twits who used to act like playing 1E instead of 2E was some sort of mark of obsolescence spouting off that the Bard was a "jack of all trades", which painfully under-represented the fact that a Bard is about music (or performing, if you want to be so broad). But now the ROGUE is a "Jack of all trades"?!? The Rogue is a Rogue. And the Rogue's roots stem directly from the Thief. The Rogue is not a friggin "Jack of all trades" any more than the Fighter is.

In 3.5 all characters are essentially potential jacks of all trades!

I have more respect for the kid asking about the 1000th level character, than a bunch of moping babies who felt slighted by WOTC! In fact I apologize for making light of the subject. At least he's customizing his game rather than moaning and groaning about how much he hates it for not being munchkin enough.

These books weren't written just for you, believe it or not not everyone hates what you hate. Just because you dislike something doesn't mean your the authority.
It's one thing to share your ideas for bettering something in the hopes that those out there who agree can improve their experience. It's dumb to just complain.

You know anyone throwing a fit about a game is pretty sad. All you people (those who can't be pleased with anything!) whining that "So you think Wizards did this and that wrong and they ripped you off and your 30 living in your mom's basement so you wasted your allowance on books." In fact, you spent the damn money accept what you paid for. Don't buy it so you can just log in here and feel legitimate when you claim you can do it better. Naysayers can go sit in their towers. You don't like 1e and 2nd edition players acting snobby, that's cool, I made the switch, and I don't like any of my fellow 3.5 players who act like children.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Except they called the class Assassin, not Arcane Assassin of Shadows or some oher such thing. It's the presented "Assassin" class. As such, it should be an assassin, not a mystical spellcasting assassin.

Except I'm not entirely sure I buy that argument. Maybe it's the fantasy literature I've been reading, but a good percentage of the time, assassins aren't just generic killers-for-hire. They're ninja with magical powers, servants of dark gods who dabble in forbidden arts and lore, etc.

In short, a lot of the Assassins I "know" are magically-inclined. It's just the 1E ones that aren't, and they're really just rogues, anyway.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Except I'm not entirely sure I buy that argument. Maybe it's the fantasy literature I've been reading, but a good percentage of the time, assassins aren't just generic killers-for-hire. They're ninja with magical powers, servants of dark gods who dabble in forbidden arts and lore, etc.

In short, a lot of the Assassins I "know" are magically-inclined. It's just the 1E ones that aren't, and they're really just rogues, anyway.

Hmm... Can't back you on that one, Patryn.

Sure, fantasy is replete with assassins with strange mystical abilities. But that doesn't change the fact that, both historically and (IME) in the majority of fiction, an assassin is someone who kills for money. Magic doesn't enter into it.

As I said above, I really like the assassin PrC as it is. But I have to agree with Wolvy; it would have been better off with a slightly more specific name, and it would have been nice for the game to either include a mundane (or at least more mundange) assassin PrC, or to acknowledge the fact that an assassin PrC was unnecessary.

 

[moritheil]

There are many approaches one can take to the reason why assassins are the way they are. Here are a few:

- Classes are typically impotent without some measure of magic.
- WOTC writers are not all high quality writers, and the assassin writer just goofed.
- If you want a non-magic-using assassin, you can make a fighter/rogue, but the exact path to making a magic-using assassin deserves special attention, as it's a little harder to make without a PrC written for it, and as such, it deserved a PrC.

So in short, this can be rationalized, folks. Pick your poison.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Hmm... Can't back you on that one, Patryn.

Sure, fantasy is replete with assassins with strange mystical abilities. But that doesn't change the fact that, both historically and (IME) in the majority of fiction, an assassin is someone who kills for money. Magic doesn't enter into it.

Well, historically, very few people've used magical powers to any great degree ...

That being said, perhaps I view a fantasy assassin as something rather different than a Tom Clancy-esque assassin, because when I think of fantasy assassins, I immediately think of Assassins' Guilds. For non-fantasy assassins, I tend to think of lone snipers. Then, of course, there's Terry Pratchett's assassins ...

As an added bonus, how's about we see how many times we can use the word assassin in a single post?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Well, historically, very few people've used magical powers to any great degree ...

I dunno, you ask the right person, you'll hear all about Lee Harvey Oswald's magic...

 

[mhacdebhandia]

You know what were really quite good?

The variant assassin classes from Dragon Magazine #312.

You had the poisoner, whose speciality is obvious; the oppressor, who is a protection-racket gangster; and the replacement killer, who murders important people and took their place for . . . comedy purposes.

I like them.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

As crass (and lame) as this statement may be, I can not help but find great humor in a guy going by the name "ForceUser" lamenting his inability to choke someone at a distance.

I find your lack of faith...disturbing.

My only real objection to prestige classes is the ruthless retro-building it requires at 1st level.

You can link up a great character concept with a perfect PrC, then you have to devise some trite reason for them to have 8 ranks in profession (sommelier), or contrive a situation where the PC must grapple an animated 4-poster bed in order to qualify.

Yes! That's been my problem too. I found this one out playing Neverwinter Nights and thinking to myself "Yes! I've made Shadowdancer!" Only to find out...nope. Missed something or the other. Grrrr...

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I don't really understand that complaint, myself - I've rarely seen prestige classes, at least since the revision, which didn't have perfectly logical prerequisites, which characters suitable for the class would take anyway.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I don't really understand that complaint, myself - I've rarely seen prestige classes, at least since the revision, which didn't have perfectly logical prerequisites, which characters suitable for the class would take anyway.

As an example, I was creating a pirate-like character from a mix of Fighter and Rogue. After I'd been playing him for several months, Complete Adventurer came out, and it included the Thief Acrobat PrC.

It seemed to be a perfect match for his fighting style. Moreover, I was only a couple of skill ranks away from meeting the prereqs.

Now, given that I'd been playing the character since long before I could have even known about the PrC, it's not possible that I had been "grooming" him towards it since level 1. Ergo, it cannot be a requirement.

Rather, it just so happened that I found a PrC which fit where I was going with the character anyway, and would qualify to take in one or two more levels (depending on when I felt like taking it).

And this, I think, is the important point. If you absolutely must take a PrC at the earliest possible moment, then, yes, you'll probably need to plan ahead. However, there's certainly no stipulation in any rulebook, anywhere, that says you must do so. Sometimes, it's even better to wait a bit.

Now, on to other points:

Okay, let me just say something, speaking as someone who has been insulted by Patryn in the past when we disagreed over a ruling, but gotten over it
...
but if anyone here has earned the right, he has.

First off, let me point out that no one really has the right to be an arrogant git - especially not here. So, no, I don't think I've "earned the right."

And, frankly, I am, at times, an arrogant git. There's a reason why another noted poster chimes in occasionally with, "Patryn of Elvenshae's a putz." I'm sure it's meant good-naturedly, but it is far-too-often true.

So, I'm working on it. I am human, however.

That being said, thanks for showing more maturity than I do sometimes, moritheil.