Cyber-Dave
Explorer
[MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION]: I guess. Only problem is, it's weird. Why can they use large simple weapons and not large martial weapons?
D&D 5E Large Size PCs?
Jester David
Hero
Frame it as a proficiency thing. They're proficient with Large simple weapons.
Why? Because balance. It's not the most elegant solution... but it works.
The precursor to the monstrous races section explicitly states that they are unusual in their design and they “should be handled with care”, which is designer-speak for not balanced. Jester did a good job touching on some reasons for this, many times in D&D weaknesses are entirely avoidable by simply not selecting certain options. Int saves are rare, for example, so if you have +4 str and -4 Int, you just don’t pick an int class or skills and for the most part you never feel its sting. This problem was rife in 3.x.
Bounded accuracy wrecks this idea on its face. In fact, we’ve already tested the concept with Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master, which are routinely touted as the strongest (some say OP) feats in the game. It’s simply too easy for player to still hit things with penalties like that and once it’s solved then it becomes the go-to choice.
If there were more elements of the game that focused on pros and cons of size then it might not be an issue, such as large creatures being worse at dodging AoE effects or taking additional damage from them (since more of their squares are affected). If mundane attrition was better modeled, then increased food intake might be a concern as well. Maybe if the base game scaled damage more by level/HD then even the above wouldn’t be needed. Point is, none of those things are true currently, and large PCs create so many issues and are so vulnerable to char-op that they’re unlikely to return in any official incarnation any time soon I think.
The PH isn't even consistent about what size actually means. In one place it's a label for space categories, where space is the combat area and "not an expression of its physical dimensions". Then the description of squeezing in literally the next section implicitly contradicts this (it's also broken, as Medium creatures can't squeeze through Tiny spaces, only Small ones, which aren't actually any smaller, seriously WTF). And nowhere is the vertical dimension even mentioned, which is probably for the best.
The MM isn't any more useful. All Giants are Huge, and according to the handy diagram they range from 16' to 26' in height. Which suggests some Medium creatures could be up to 8.67' tall, but that's not what's so bad. No, what's ridiculous is that a 26' tall metal-armored humanoid has an AC of 16. This thing has an inseam over 10'. Armored boots (what kind of armor-wearing giant wouldn't have boots) as tall as most humans. How do you even hurt it?
D&D size categories are completely ridiculous and have never made a lick of sense. So no Large PCs, because Large is already nonsense.
The MM isn't any more useful. All Giants are Huge, and according to the handy diagram they range from 16' to 26' in height. Which suggests some Medium creatures could be up to 8.67' tall, but that's not what's so bad. No, what's ridiculous is that a 26' tall metal-armored humanoid has an AC of 16. This thing has an inseam over 10'. Armored boots (what kind of armor-wearing giant wouldn't have boots) as tall as most humans. How do you even hurt it?
D&D size categories are completely ridiculous and have never made a lick of sense. So no Large PCs, because Large is already nonsense.
So I started thinking about homebrewing a large PC.
Half-ogre seemed the obvious place to begin.
So for research purposes, I looked them up in the Monster Manual.
It says there are several sub-races depending on the mother's race; I thought that would be interesting for a PC.
But then I started looking at its size and size bonuses:
It's "Large giant, any chaotic alignment."
Okay, so far so good.
In the description, it says, "An adult half-orge or ogrillon stands 8 feet tall and weighs 450 pounds on average."
That quickly became problematic as bugbears, firbolgs, and goliaths are about the same size; so why would a half-ogre be considered large?
Then I looked at stats and features of the half-ogre.
Strength and Constitution are only 17 and 14 respectively, much lower than I expected.
It has no significant abilities, just Battleaxe and Javelin, which both have a 5' reach, but with 2d8+3 and 2d6+3 damage respectively.
A medium bugbear has a 5' greater reach.
The weapon damage die is doubled, however, but is this because of its size (they are not labelled large weapons, and a half-ogre's +3 Strength modifier can be significantly beaten by other PCs with a +5)?
It has 30 (4d10+8) hit points and is Challenge Rating 1.
So if hit points were adjusted to a first level PC, the only race features would be double weapon die and size large.
Size large benefits/detriments:
+ It gains an extra damage die for weapons.
+ Small creatures could not Grapple or Shove it; it can grapple and shove huge creatures.
(+) Carrying Capacity, pushing, dragging, and lifting amounts are doubled (some PC races have this already with Powerful Build).
(+) Its Hit Dice is d10 (but could be left to class as normal).
+/- Enlarge spell would make huge; Guardian Soul would not enlarge; Ogre Form would not enlarge; Giant form would enlarge as usual.
+/- If using feats, Mounted Combatant selected by another PC becomes more effective (easily banned by DM). But a large PC would have more trouble finding a suitable mount for herself.
- Limited to 2 dimensions, a medium creature can be flanked by 8 medium creatures or 4 large creatures; a large creature can be flanked by 12 medium creatures or 6 large creatures.
- It would have to squeeze through a 5' tunnel, hole, or door; it cannot squeeze through small openings (how big is that?).
- It would be harder to hide, avoid line-of-sight effects, and find large-sized cover.
- Purchasing large armor and weapons would likely be more expensive.
So, balancing the plus/minus, it seems workable.
Half-ogre seemed the obvious place to begin.
So for research purposes, I looked them up in the Monster Manual.
It says there are several sub-races depending on the mother's race; I thought that would be interesting for a PC.
But then I started looking at its size and size bonuses:
It's "Large giant, any chaotic alignment."
Okay, so far so good.
In the description, it says, "An adult half-orge or ogrillon stands 8 feet tall and weighs 450 pounds on average."
That quickly became problematic as bugbears, firbolgs, and goliaths are about the same size; so why would a half-ogre be considered large?
Then I looked at stats and features of the half-ogre.
Strength and Constitution are only 17 and 14 respectively, much lower than I expected.
It has no significant abilities, just Battleaxe and Javelin, which both have a 5' reach, but with 2d8+3 and 2d6+3 damage respectively.
A medium bugbear has a 5' greater reach.
The weapon damage die is doubled, however, but is this because of its size (they are not labelled large weapons, and a half-ogre's +3 Strength modifier can be significantly beaten by other PCs with a +5)?
It has 30 (4d10+8) hit points and is Challenge Rating 1.
So if hit points were adjusted to a first level PC, the only race features would be double weapon die and size large.
Size large benefits/detriments:
+ It gains an extra damage die for weapons.
+ Small creatures could not Grapple or Shove it; it can grapple and shove huge creatures.
(+) Carrying Capacity, pushing, dragging, and lifting amounts are doubled (some PC races have this already with Powerful Build).
(+) Its Hit Dice is d10 (but could be left to class as normal).
+/- Enlarge spell would make huge; Guardian Soul would not enlarge; Ogre Form would not enlarge; Giant form would enlarge as usual.
+/- If using feats, Mounted Combatant selected by another PC becomes more effective (easily banned by DM). But a large PC would have more trouble finding a suitable mount for herself.
- Limited to 2 dimensions, a medium creature can be flanked by 8 medium creatures or 4 large creatures; a large creature can be flanked by 12 medium creatures or 6 large creatures.
- It would have to squeeze through a 5' tunnel, hole, or door; it cannot squeeze through small openings (how big is that?).
- It would be harder to hide, avoid line-of-sight effects, and find large-sized cover.
- Purchasing large armor and weapons would likely be more expensive.
So, balancing the plus/minus, it seems workable.
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Zardnaar
Legend
Large PCs kind of need race as class if you want the extra dice for the weapons. I would like that for something like Darksun with various subclasses having cleric spells or whatever.
So you can get the extra dice but you won't be able to combine it with fighter multiple attacks or action surge.
Half Giants only had 2 or 3 decent class options once again they could be done with subclasses so your basic half giant resembles a warrior and not getting martial weapons is part of the race as class package wglhich helps with things like dual wielding 2d8 longswords.
Mounted is also a problem with 2d12 lances. The larger weapons can be done but you need to give up extra sources of damage for them such as a weapon style, spells for paladins and rangers and class abilities like smiting.
A half giant combo with a moon Druid dual wielding lances or using the shield master feat is the obvious combos I can think of. Class as race (no martial weapons) mitigates this as a one handed 2d6 weapon at level 1 is not that bad as you can deal similar damage with 1 weapon and weapon style anyway.
You can always add in martial weapons later in the class progression as a subclass like the valor bard. No 3rd attack or even a second attack can be a trade off so you can use a 2d12 weapon later on no problem. Such a class could just get extra dice of damage instead a'la cleric so you get 3d12+ strength mod. Nasty critical hits.
So you can get the extra dice but you won't be able to combine it with fighter multiple attacks or action surge.
Half Giants only had 2 or 3 decent class options once again they could be done with subclasses so your basic half giant resembles a warrior and not getting martial weapons is part of the race as class package wglhich helps with things like dual wielding 2d8 longswords.
Mounted is also a problem with 2d12 lances. The larger weapons can be done but you need to give up extra sources of damage for them such as a weapon style, spells for paladins and rangers and class abilities like smiting.
A half giant combo with a moon Druid dual wielding lances or using the shield master feat is the obvious combos I can think of. Class as race (no martial weapons) mitigates this as a one handed 2d6 weapon at level 1 is not that bad as you can deal similar damage with 1 weapon and weapon style anyway.
You can always add in martial weapons later in the class progression as a subclass like the valor bard. No 3rd attack or even a second attack can be a trade off so you can use a 2d12 weapon later on no problem. Such a class could just get extra dice of damage instead a'la cleric so you get 3d12+ strength mod. Nasty critical hits.
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Perhaps the easiest solution to the extra damage die is to treat large weapons like the Enlarge spell does, adding 1d4 extra damage.
Zardnaar
Legend
That can work as well, PCs do not need the NPC extra damage dice ability IMHO.
Cyber-Dave
Explorer
This is the half giant I once made for my Dark Sun game. I found that it worked fairly well. Any character I saw built with it seemed to me to be about as balanced as a RAW character. That being said, I only had a chance to play a few Dark Sun games. I got to level 4 with one group and level 9 with another, so the highest level half giant character I saw was 6/3 (was a fighter).
Half-Giant
Ability Score Increase: Your Strength score increases by 2. Your Constition score increases by 1.
Size: Half-giants vary in size from 10 to 12 feet tall and weigh up to 1,600 pounds. Half-giants are considered to be large in size. As a large creature, you can carry, push, drag, or lift double what a medium sized creature of your strength can physically manipulate. In combat, you control a 10 by 10 foot space and can squeeze into a 5 by 5 foot space (spending 1 extra foot for every foot of movement taken, suffering disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws, and granting advantage to any creature that is attacking you while you are squeezing into the smaller space). You can be surrounded by up to 12 medium sized foes, and you take up 1 ½ “units” when surrounding an adversary. You can wield large sized weapons without taking disadvantage to your attack rolls. You, however, take disadvantage when attacking with a weapon that is not sized for a large creature. You also may not wear any armor or clothing not designed for your size. Armor and clothing designed for a half-giant costs twice the normal price and weighs twice as much as normal. Finally, you must eat and drink 4 times the quantity of rations required by a medium sized creature and pay 4 times the normal lifestyle expenses.
Speed: Your base land speed is 30 feet.
Giant Heritage: You are considered to be a giant.
Giant’s Strength: You have advantage when making Strength checks to break an object.
Half-Giant Toughness: Your hit point maximum increases by 1, and it increases by 1 every time you gain a level.
Mercurial Nature: The magic that allows human and giant blood to coexist leaves the half-giant’s personality naturally unhinged. As a result, you suffer disadvantage on any saves versus charm based effects. In order to counterbalance this mercurial disability, half-giants will often attach themselves to the personality of a friend or mentor, mimicking their personality traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws in order to somewhat reorient their own persona. At the start of every day, you may choose one member of your party to mimic. For that day, you take on their personality trait, ideal, bond, and flaw as well as your own.
Sluggish Mind: Half-giants are not as quick witted as their human counterparts. A half-giant must begin play as a member of the “half-giant racial class” (see below). The half-giant racial class only has 3 levels. You must level this class to level 3 before multicasting. After you have leveled the half-giant to level 3, you must multiclass into another class, and you must meet the multiclassing requirements of that class.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write one language of your choice. It is strongly advised that you choose common.
Half-Giant Class Features
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d10 per half-giant level.
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier.
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per half-giant level after 1st.
Proficiencies
Armor: Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, and shields.
Weapons: All simple weapons.
Tools: None.
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
Skills: Choose one skill from Animal Handling, Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival.
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
• (a) large kank vest or (b) large leather armor, large sized light crossbow, and 20 large wood tipped bolts.
• (a) a large bone simple weapon.
• (a) a large shield or (b) a large stone simple weapon.
• (a) 4 dungeoneer’s packs or (b) 4 explorer’s packs.
Ham Fisted
At 1st level, your unarmed attacks deal 1d4 damage. If you get an improved unarmed damage die from any other source (such as the monk’s “Martial Arts” ability or the “Tavern Brawler” feat), you instead deal double the normal damage dice. For example, a half-giant with the “Tavern Brawler” feat deals 2d4 damage.
Boulder Toss
At 2nd level, you become proficient in tossing large boulders at foes. If you can find a rock-like object of at least 300 pounds, but that weighs no more than your maximum carrying capacity, and both your hands are free, you may use an action to pick up the rock and make a thrown ranged weapon attack against a foe. This attack has a range of 60/240 feet. If your attack hits, it deals 1d12 + your Strength modifier damage. At 5th level, the damage increases to 2d12 + your Strength modifier. At 11th level, the damage increases to 3d12 + your Strength modifier. At 17th level, the damage increases to 4d12 + your Strength modifier.
Giant’s Endurance
At 3rd level, you learn to focus yourself to shrug off injuries. As a reaction when you take damage, you can spend a hit die. Roll that hit die and add your Constitution modifier. Subtract the result from the damage you take. After you use Giant’s Endurance, you cannot use it again until after a short or long rest.
Half-Giant
Ability Score Increase: Your Strength score increases by 2. Your Constition score increases by 1.
Size: Half-giants vary in size from 10 to 12 feet tall and weigh up to 1,600 pounds. Half-giants are considered to be large in size. As a large creature, you can carry, push, drag, or lift double what a medium sized creature of your strength can physically manipulate. In combat, you control a 10 by 10 foot space and can squeeze into a 5 by 5 foot space (spending 1 extra foot for every foot of movement taken, suffering disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws, and granting advantage to any creature that is attacking you while you are squeezing into the smaller space). You can be surrounded by up to 12 medium sized foes, and you take up 1 ½ “units” when surrounding an adversary. You can wield large sized weapons without taking disadvantage to your attack rolls. You, however, take disadvantage when attacking with a weapon that is not sized for a large creature. You also may not wear any armor or clothing not designed for your size. Armor and clothing designed for a half-giant costs twice the normal price and weighs twice as much as normal. Finally, you must eat and drink 4 times the quantity of rations required by a medium sized creature and pay 4 times the normal lifestyle expenses.
Speed: Your base land speed is 30 feet.
Giant Heritage: You are considered to be a giant.
Giant’s Strength: You have advantage when making Strength checks to break an object.
Half-Giant Toughness: Your hit point maximum increases by 1, and it increases by 1 every time you gain a level.
Mercurial Nature: The magic that allows human and giant blood to coexist leaves the half-giant’s personality naturally unhinged. As a result, you suffer disadvantage on any saves versus charm based effects. In order to counterbalance this mercurial disability, half-giants will often attach themselves to the personality of a friend or mentor, mimicking their personality traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws in order to somewhat reorient their own persona. At the start of every day, you may choose one member of your party to mimic. For that day, you take on their personality trait, ideal, bond, and flaw as well as your own.
Sluggish Mind: Half-giants are not as quick witted as their human counterparts. A half-giant must begin play as a member of the “half-giant racial class” (see below). The half-giant racial class only has 3 levels. You must level this class to level 3 before multicasting. After you have leveled the half-giant to level 3, you must multiclass into another class, and you must meet the multiclassing requirements of that class.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write one language of your choice. It is strongly advised that you choose common.
Half-Giant Class Features
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d10 per half-giant level.
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier.
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per half-giant level after 1st.
Proficiencies
Armor: Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, and shields.
Weapons: All simple weapons.
Tools: None.
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
Skills: Choose one skill from Animal Handling, Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival.
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
• (a) large kank vest or (b) large leather armor, large sized light crossbow, and 20 large wood tipped bolts.
• (a) a large bone simple weapon.
• (a) a large shield or (b) a large stone simple weapon.
• (a) 4 dungeoneer’s packs or (b) 4 explorer’s packs.
Ham Fisted
At 1st level, your unarmed attacks deal 1d4 damage. If you get an improved unarmed damage die from any other source (such as the monk’s “Martial Arts” ability or the “Tavern Brawler” feat), you instead deal double the normal damage dice. For example, a half-giant with the “Tavern Brawler” feat deals 2d4 damage.
Boulder Toss
At 2nd level, you become proficient in tossing large boulders at foes. If you can find a rock-like object of at least 300 pounds, but that weighs no more than your maximum carrying capacity, and both your hands are free, you may use an action to pick up the rock and make a thrown ranged weapon attack against a foe. This attack has a range of 60/240 feet. If your attack hits, it deals 1d12 + your Strength modifier damage. At 5th level, the damage increases to 2d12 + your Strength modifier. At 11th level, the damage increases to 3d12 + your Strength modifier. At 17th level, the damage increases to 4d12 + your Strength modifier.
Giant’s Endurance
At 3rd level, you learn to focus yourself to shrug off injuries. As a reaction when you take damage, you can spend a hit die. Roll that hit die and add your Constitution modifier. Subtract the result from the damage you take. After you use Giant’s Endurance, you cannot use it again until after a short or long rest.
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