Lazy DMs doing stupid things

[Coredump]

He never stated why he never looked at them.

Which means...you neve asked. Apparently, you have spent more time here 'complaining' than you have talking with him.

As I stated, we started playing over the summer,

**THIS** summer? You mean this guy has been playing for only 6 months? And your friend takes advantage of him, and you blame the DM??

So, you don't know if or how much he looked at the classes. And the problem is, that with a whopping 6 months of experience, he may not even know what is or is not broken. Being that inexperienced, he could study those classes for 8 hours, and still not realize what it would mean for his game. I have been playing for 20 years, and I still come here to get advice of rule changes, just to see all of the repurcussions.

The main point that *I* see, is that you *knew* the class was broken, your friend **knew** the class was broken. And he played it anyway. Your *friend* broke the game, not the DM. Yes, the DM may have been able to keep your friend from breaking the game, but it is directly your friends actions that broke it. Why not start a thread about "greedy gamers doing stupid things". Heck, you live *next door* to the DM, he could have asked, instead of 'assuming' it must be okay.

You state that the DM was "too lazy to fix things", how not true, he did 'fix' what your friend 'broke', he fixed it twice, you are just here complaining that you don't like what he did to fix it.


Now, I asked you this on the first page, but you have not answered.
How would you feel if he did 'fix' it right away? If he said "no shifter classes. They may or may not be balanced, but I don't care, I am not taking the chance??" I am betting you two would have felt equally 'shafted', and likely been here "I hate lazy DM's that are too lazy to even try new things. He wouldn't allow the shifter class, and wouldn't even let us try it!"

Now, you also 'blame' your DM for the power level. You say *you* wanted to keep it core only, keep it simple; apparently you tried to get him to play it that way.... but he just wouldn't listen.
Well, did he *force* you to play high powered non-core classes? Did you want to play a wizard, and he say "NO!, you must play something more powerfu!" Or, did you and your friend, *knowing* he was inexperienced, and *knowing* these classes were too powerful, and *knowing* he would not be able to handle it, go ahead and play those powerful classes anyway..... and now you are here blaming the DM??!??! YOU two knew the facts, you two had the experience, and you two made the choices.

I would *love* to have your DM friend posting on this thread. I have more sympathy for him being taken advantage of, than for your friend playing a broken 3.0 class, and getting nerfed.

 

[Coredump]

I don't understand all the fuss. The shifter's abilities are roughly equivalent, once completed, to the shapechange spell,

Sort of, except it is not a spell, and not 9th level, and you can turn incorporeal at *12th* level, and a 9th level spell is good for about 3 hours, this ability is good all day. By 14th level, can happen every round, as a move action, and choose what melds into you, can't be disrupted, doesn't need compnents, doesn't 'waste' a 9th level spell just to walk through a wall; and is much more powerful than normal wildshape, much earlier.

If the 14th level character in question had simply gone straight Druid levels, he'd have significant shapechanging powers anyway

Yeah, at 14th level, he could become an large animal 5 times a day.
Compared to being an incorporeal undead 7 times a day at 12th level
or becoming just about anything, unlimited times a day at 14th level


It is quite possible that a druid 14 is more powerful than a druid4/shifter10, but you do not have to be powerful to be broken.


Of course, I am curious how he 'maxed out' shifter at 14th level, he should need 5 levels of druid to get in.

 

[Nail]

RAHHH! PIELORINHO SMASH!!!!!

For the record: I really, really, really appreciate the time and patience of the moderators.

 

[Nail]

Incidentally, in our weekly campaign, last session ended with our party ambushed and trapped in a solid forcecage. The cage takes up a room of an inn, and I've blocked the doorway with a Wall of Stone so the ambushing wizards can't see their way in, but I'm worried that we're officially In Trouble. Advice would be welcome.

Heh. I'd imagine.

Is the wall of stone inside the force cage? (And if it's outside, how'd you get it there?)

Advice of any kind is gonna be highly DM-specific. Lemme tell you how I would resond as a DM: Now that the PCs are trapped, the wizard goes for some help and comes back. Since he's throwing around Forcecage he's gottta be at least Wiz 13. So he has access to more than one teleport a day; perfect for teleporting back to home base, grabbing some muscle and an extra wizard or 2, and then teleporting back.

(Something I'm not clear on: why did the wizard cast Forcecage on your party in the first place if he didn't recognize you?)

In any event, I'm not sure the wizard would want to teleport into a place he can't see. Too much potential to be surrounded by pesky heros with sharp swords. If I were the wizard I'd go get help, arrange my help outside the Forcecage, then dismiss the forcecage. Since you've got a pesky Wall of Stone in the way, I'd consider having a spell handy that would deal with it....as well as having someone able to pass thru the window on the other side of the room.

-I'm a Druid14 in disguise; I don't think they realize what I am, having never seen my real face.

You just cast Wall of Stone though, right? The wizard can figure the rest out.

 

[Nail]

I don't understand all the fuss.

I can only assume you are trying to pull our leg with this kind of comment.

 

[Pielorinho]

Heh. I'd imagine.

Is the wall of stone inside the force cage? (And if it's outside, how'd you get it there?)

Advice of any kind is gonna be highly DM-specific. Lemme tell you how I would resond as a DM: Now that the PCs are trapped, the wizard goes for some help and comes back. Since he's throwing around Forcecage he's gottta be at least Wiz 13. So he has access to more than one teleport a day; perfect for teleporting back to home base, grabbing some muscle and an extra wizard or 2, and then teleporting back.

(Something I'm not clear on: why did the wizard cast Forcecage on your party in the first place if he didn't recognize you?)

We were dealing with rebels in the kingdom, so they may have managed to infiltrate the rebels and discover where we planned to meet with them, and ambushed us there. Also, one of the two wizards who teleported in was one taht we had previously encountered and fought (he'd escaped), so he may have managed to track us down through some other means.

as well as having someone able to pass thru the window on the other side of the room.

Ooh. I'd thought about the bringing-in-help angle, but not about the other window angle. One more thing on our side that I forgot to mention: we all have Wind Walk cast on us, so we could just wait in wind-walk form and zip out as soon as the forcecage is dispelled.

You just cast Wall of Stone though, right? The wizard can figure the rest out.

They know I'm a spellcaster, but this kingdom doesn't have any divine spellcasters; they're likely to assume that I'm either some sort of elemental spirit, or a wizard. Not that that's going to be much help, probably.

Daniel

 

[OrionNo9]

Hello Guy,

I am the best friend, whom bat was talking about in the start of this thread. I will exsplain the "problem" in a bit more detail, or at least give me view.

Our DM who, in my option, was not ready to DM. Started this campain last summer. He wanted to DM a high level campain using all the 3.0 and 3.5 Wizard of the Cost Books. When I started looking for a character concept I found the shifter prc form Masters of the Wild and the concept of playing a shapechanger, excited my imangation. However I could easily see that that prc was over-powered. So I started looking for a 3.5 update. While I was looking for an update I found a fan update, and I also found the Master of Many Forms PrC in Complete Adventurer. I asked the DM to look over those two PrC's and tell me which one he wanted me to play about a month before the first game, he never got back to me so I played the published PrC. After playing for a few weeks the DM started complain about my large and bigger forms. Later when when the a majordity of our group could no longer play, the DM told me that since we are getting some new player that I had to stop playing the Master of Many Forms and start playing the shifter PrC I found on the internet, and that I also was loosing 3 levels. I did not like loosing levels just becuase we where getting new player but I said fine, I did not like having to completly re-do my pc, but I did it without complaining.

Now we are playing our first game with the 'new' group and my new pc. And we have two battles. In the first one the bad guys keep transporting and I never get within ten feet of them, however the rest of the group easily kills them. Then at the end of the night we have one final battle in this battle I was able to hit one of the 8 bad guys before the fight was over. This is how this battle went, Round 1: I changed into a Stone Golem. Our groups 2 spell casters kill 7 bad guys before they even get to act. Round 2: I hit the bad guy in front of me miss once hit the second time do 2d10+9 damage, the rest of the group attacks him, his SR keeps him from being murdered by the spell casters. he then attacks the scout in the group and misses. Round 3: I do a full round attack can only hit once do another 2d10+9 damage, spell caster overcome SR and easily kill the bad guy. The next day the DM E-mails me and says you pc is way too powerful, you can not longer do theses things. What considers me is first of all how am I too powerful? I would like for the DM to tell me and show how I did things that where just to powerful. But the one coment that the DM made is what made me mad, since you are playing a fan made PRC I should be able to change it as much as I want because it was not play-tested by Wizard. He was the one who told me I had to play that PrC class!
This is just one thing in a line of problems we have had with this DM, and if was not the fact that I know the DM outside of D&D and that I would really hurt his feeling by quiting I would have done so already. When I try to help him out by telling him of other things he could do or try he gets upset, he has made it clear that he does not want help and my help is unwanted. I beleive what Bat was looking for when he posted this thread was how we could improve this game without offending our DM.

~OrionNo9
P.S. I am sorry for any spelling/grammer errors I wrote this in a hurry between classes

 

[Nail]

Ooh. I'd thought about the bringing-in-help angle, but not about the other window angle. One more thing on our side that I forgot to mention: we all have Wind Walk cast on us, so we could just wait in wind-walk form and zip out as soon as the forcecage is dispelled.

That might be the best option right there. As a guess, if the wizard doesn't teleport into the Forcecage within a few rounds, he's gone for help, or is setting some other sort of trap. If that is the case, staying in wind-form and resting might be your best bet.

Are your freinds in the portable hole also Wind Walked? It would be nice to have them out and available to help, should an emergency arrive.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

he has made it clear that he does not want help and my help is unwanted. I beleive what Bat was looking for when he posted this thread was how we could improve this game without offending our DM.

Ultimately, though, the solution has been posted many times. If you have a DM that isn't responsive to help (especially when they are new) and isn't playing it the way you would like it ... then ...

1. You can put up with it and be grateful for the DM. -OR-

2. Leave and be the DM for yourself.

Ultimately, I usually choose #2 ... but I'm not often faced with DMs that refuse help.

That is where I put the big problem in this group - total lack of communication. The players do have the responsibility of taming their talents to an appropriate level if the DM is jst learning. That goes along with communication. But, a new DM has the responsibility of being willing to learn from those with experience. The new DM should realize an experienced player is going to blow through an encounter they thought would be difficult from time to time. But it is up to the players to not blow through EVERY encounter while the DM is just learning. That's part of the learning process.

Now - once the DM is a veteran ... all bets are off. Use granted powers at will, in my book.

...

Oh, and just for the record, my snickers above were not meant to be offensive to the OP and friend. My snickers were at my own attempt to solve the "vertical" problem by using non-normal gravity solution. They old "If a problem can't be solved, rather than beat your head over the issue, move it to a place where it can be easily solved" approach. But really, I wasn't trying to laugh at the OP ... actually laughing at my own silliness.

 

[Nail]

Hello Guy,

Uhmmm.....to whom are you refering? You know there are thousands of viewers here, right?

....the DM told me that since we are getting some new player that I had to stop playing the Master of Many Forms and start playing the shifter PrC I found on the internet, and that I also was loosing 3 levels.

Geees.........

Look, the DM is clearly in over his head, doesn't want to self-examine, and has some major skill deficiencies in leading a gaming group. Your best bet is to back off.....and I'm saying that only because you and your friend

• a)have said you don't want to quit, and
• b) are not communicating well with this guy (that could be an issue ALL of you need to work on....it's unclear from your post)

The other problem I see is a small group of players. How many people are in your gaming group? If there are only you 2 and the DM, that means differences of opinion have little to buffer them.