Lazy DMs doing stupid things

[Nail]

Wow. Nonleathal Force and I both wrote very different emails....that both say the same thing. Cool.

 

[Templeton580]

*

 

[wuyanei]

Honestly? Stop the game now. The way things are going, sooner or later you will all have a big fight and end the game amid hard feelings. Just get together and agree to stop playing D&D and do something else with your free time. A game isn't worth brusing a friendship over.

 

[Coredump]

Here is the deal, the DM is new, and does not have the skills needed to run a campaign yet, *especially* not a high level one, and **especially** not one with high powered classes at high levels.

Deciding to ignore the exact timeline of who did what when, with what permission.....

YOU are the experienced ones. YOU know what would be the best situation for the DM. Try and make it happen, some is out of your control, but some is in your control.


Ask him if it is okay to start at low levels. Not for *his* benefit, but becuase you guys 'want' to be able to follow your characters from low to high levels. (presentation is always important )

Even if he says you can all be Ur-Priest Gestalt characters, you know better. Try choosing the simpler classes. Heck, try sticking in the PHB. At least for the first several levels, maybe you can PrC to something else.

If he makes a ruling, and it is wrong; try talking to him *after* the session.

Realize that new DMs, especially those also new to DnD, will make some weird decisions. That is part of the price of using an inexperienced DM. But DM's tend to make weird decisions when they don't know what to do; if you keep things simpler (low level, base classes) he may feel less out-of-control, and thus make fewer weird rulings


He is new, he needs to start simple--even if he doesn't realize it. So help him start simple.

 

[Patlin]

I can only assume you are trying to pull our leg with this kind of comment.

No, I'm serious. The prestige class doesn't seem all that powerfull to me. I may be making an error in concentrating too much on what it looks like at level 20 rather than looking at each individual level, but it seems to give up a lot more than it gets.

If the problem is simply that it gets access to some abilities too early, maybe the prerequisites should be tweaked so that it can only be entered at a higher level. Or, possibly, the spell the prestige class tries to mimic (shapechange) is simply way too powerfull to begin with. I think there is a very strong argument for that, but shapechange seems to have the status of a sacred cow.

I've played a cleric with shapechange as a domain spell, and even only once a day it is fantastically powerfull. My point is simply that it's available even in core rules, without any prestige class, and available at a level not much higher than the levels being discussed. So why the hate for the prestige class? Isn't it more of a concern that four core classes can get these abilities without even dedicating themselves to shapechanging above other things?

 

[Patlin]

By the way, as I'm sure this was unclear, my recomendation to the original poster is to pursue the abilities you want within the context of the core rules. If your DM doesn't like the prestige class, maybe he won't have a problem with a similarly themed character, perhaps even more powerfull, straight out of the PHB.

 

[Nail]

Isn't it more of a concern that four core classes can get these abilities without even dedicating themselves to shapechanging above other things?

Nope. The core classes can get Shapechange as a spell at 17th level (or higher) once per day. We're talking about (according to the OP) 14th level getting it unlimited times per day. That's a substantial difference.

Or, possibly, the spell the prestige class tries to mimic (shapechange) is simply way too powerfull to begin with.

Answered your own question, here.

 

[Hjorimir]

I normally suggest etheral mummies with rot grub to solve this kind of problem, but with such a powerful character the DM may be better off with the blue bolts from the heavens.

In all seriousness, you've got an inexperienced DM who is thin on the rules and should have just said no to begin with. The point I'd like to make here is that D&D (and other RPGs) work out the best when the group works together. You've got these battlelines drawn, now, between the DM and the players. Instead of focusing on who is right or wrong I'd advocate finding a way to get on the same page so you can all have some fun.

I'm willing to bet that once you do that everything else will fall in line.

 

[Bat]

Now, I asked you this on the first page, but you have not answered.
How would you feel if he did 'fix' it right away? If he said "no shifter classes. They may or may not be balanced, but I don't care, I am not taking the chance??" I am betting you two would have felt equally 'shafted', and likely been here "I hate lazy DM's that are too lazy to even try new things. He wouldn't allow the shifter class, and wouldn't even let us try it!"

To be completly honest, if he had said at the beginning: "No Shifting classes, I do not like them because I think they are too powerful", I would not have cared. I would have said: "OK, fine. No shifting classes." Whether you choose to believe my statement or not is up to you.

Now, you also 'blame' your DM for the power level. You say *you* wanted to keep it core only, keep it simple; apparently you tried to get him to play it that way.... but he just wouldn't listen.
Well, did he *force* you to play high powered non-core classes? Did you want to play a wizard, and he say "NO!, you must play something more powerfu!" Or, did you and your friend, *knowing* he was inexperienced, and *knowing* these classes were too powerful, and *knowing* he would not be able to handle it, go ahead and play those powerful classes anyway..... and now you are here blaming the DM??!??! YOU two knew the facts, you two had the experience, and you two made the choices.

When we first started playing this summer, I was not playing a non-core class; I started by playing a Barbarian w/no PRCs. Over the course of the summer, before restarting his game, the DM complained about 2 things to me.

The first one was how good I was at combat. At that point, our group was comprised of my Barbarian, the 3.0 Shifter, a Rouge/Shadowdancer/Custome Prestige Class the DM allowed, a Druid and a bard. The Shifter was the only one that could keep up with me in sheer damage-dealing ability, and the DM was having a hard time throwing enemies at us. He wanted to make them powerful enough to survive more than 2 or 3 rounds, but if he did that, the Rouge, Bard and Druid couldn't stand up to them very well. I suggested to him that he use 1 or 2 strong guys that the Shifter and I could stand up to, followed by 2 or 3 lower-level cohorts the others could go toe-to-toe with. He never took me up on the advice.

The second thing he complained about was the fact that the group was lacking an arcane spell caster. He was not speaking of the Bard - he was referring to a Sorcerer or Wizard type.

Given those two things, when he restarted his campagin, I flat-out asked him: "Would you prefer me to keep playing the Barbarian, or would you like me to play an arcane caster?" He said he would prefer me to go with an arcane caster, and I said I was probably going with the Sorcerer, at which point he showed me the Warmage class, which I didnt even know about until that point. I decided I liked the Warmage, and went with it.

Now, with my new character, I decided to be one level of Monk for the HP, the AC bonus, and the saving throw bonus. My other 13 levels were comprised of Warmage. I also took the Aestic Mage feat from Complete Adventurer which, among other things, allows me to, if I am allowed to add my wisdom bonus to AC (like an unarmored, unencumbered monk), I can instead add my Charisma bonus to AC. Since Warmages use Charisma to cast spells like Sorecerers do, this was obviously a good feat for me.

Before play started, I finished that character and took it to the DM and said: "I did this, and took the Aestic Mage feat, which gives me a pretty high AC. Do you think my character is too powerful? Do you want me to take the away the monk level and the Aestic Mage feat and go all Warmage to make things more balanced?" He said he did not, and that my character was fine.

He also told my best friend that the Shifter PRC was fine, and then changed it. Despite the fact that it might seem otherwise, the changes to the PRC are not what I care about; I care about the fact that he did this at all. What happens when he thinks I am overpowered? If he decides one day that I have too much AC, I not only lose a feat, I have a totally useless level of monk. That is what I am concerned about, and that is why I came here looking for ways to avoid that happening.

 

[Mistwell]

our party ambushed and trapped in a solid forcecage....
...I have Dispel Magic prepared.

I'm sorry, but is there some reason Dispel Magic will NOT work on a forcecage?