Least favorite Prc

[Grog]

Re: ugh.. wounded pride

But, you have yet to say what the rule problem is with PrC's.

The only thing you have mentioned that might be a "rule" problem is "low requirements", but I don't see how that is a problem.

If a player sees a PrC a dm approves of, then they are going to make sure they meet the requirements - high or low.

Well, how about making the core classes almost irrelevant? With so many PrCs out there with abilities beyond the core classes, all the core classes become is mere stepping stones to get to a PrC or two (or three...)

And I think the low requirements are a problem, because they mean that a PC could simply take a level or two in five or six different PrC to get their front-loaded abilities, then move on to something else. That's pretty unbalancing.

 

[BluWolf]

Most of the prestige classes I have seen are OK. Some are good ideas with 80% of the work done on the mechanics. Others, I think are just stupid. I will admit MY idea of stupid is not some one else's.

I will agree with Grog, that most of the Prc out there have some pretty lax requirements. But I think this from an attempt to write something that is setting agnostic (or neutral) so as to appeal to most DMs. I think a lot of Prc classes are lacking a serious SPECIAL requiement that is most often a roleplaying or campaign specific issue. Those are hard to publish in a mass market supplement because the more specific you get the more narrow the appeal or applicability.

ALL Prc I have approved for my campaign have had some sort of roleplaying requirement in order to be taken. I just think it makes sense.

That being said, in my old group we only had 3 Prc ever taken between 3 campaigns and 2 DMs. Crusader, Alienist and Assassin.

As far as least favorite Prc? I would say any and every Prc class that grants random unsubtantiated spell casting for now damn reason!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean come on, while the hell does the Assassin need spell casting??? Because the creator saw a lazy way to make an Assassin?? I don't think there is anything MECHANICALLY wrong with the Assassin. Just conceptually.

I rewrote it. 90% of the Assassins in my world don't have a Prc class but those that do use one that is not a spell casting based class. You can take the Prc out of the PHB but it has many roleplaying reqs as well as the requirement that you be a spellcaster in the first place.

 

[Wolfen Priest]

I suspect the more fluff they put on a PrC- the less dm's that will be interested.

However- I can only recall examples from T&B and DoTF, but don't most of the WOTC splat books describe organizations. Many of those organizations tied to a PrC in that book.

FD

They may have described organizations, yes, but the PrC's did not seem to depend on those organizations for the most part. Instead, as others have posted, the vast majority of PrC's are "powers with an explanation (i.e., tacked on concept)," rather than a character concept with a few powers thrown in to make it worth your while.

I guess the general idea of prestige classes was good (or at least, not bad), but it occurred to me from the start that their introduction was basically a set-up to sell more products, most of which (I predecited) would prove to be garbage. I still very rarely, if ever, take note of PrC's at all, and see them as mostly just a waste of space. Many are interesting, sure, but I don't play enough to ever warrant their use, aside from maybe the occasionaly assassin. With the amount my group plays (lately) the regular PC classes do just fine.

I just don't get excited about PrC's, and I think there has been way too much emphasis on them in almost all d20 products, including Dragon magazine.

 

[Pielorinho]

Funny: the shadowdancer is my favorite of the DMG classes, the second PrC that will enter a game I play in. In about three weeks, one of my players will be graduating into the class; I'll probably have her write up a background for the class before doing so.

Daniel

 

[Zappo]

Mine is the Ghostwalker from S&F. I just can't see what's the point. It has apparently random abilities and a confused description.

 

[Wolfen Priest]

Mine is the Ghostwalker from S&F. I just can't see what's the point. It has apparently random abilities and a confused description.

See, everyone hates the Ghostwalker and/or doesn't get it. If you've ever seen the beginning of Fist of the North Star, then you should get it. I actually liked that one.

 

[Benben]

Mine is the Ghostwalker from S&F. I just can't see what's the point. It has apparently random abilities and a confused description.

It's made for creating an incredibly recurring villian. The ethereal and ghost walking abilities give the Ghostwalker an assured escape route, or an easy way to break into the party's homes.

The massive bonust to hit, damage, and AC are just icing on the cake.

As a DM I *love* this class.

 

[jmucchiello]

I will agree with Grog, that most of the Prc out there have some pretty lax requirements. But I think this from an attempt to write something that is setting agnostic (or neutral) so as to appeal to most DMs. I think a lot of Prc classes are lacking a serious SPECIAL requiement that is most often a roleplaying or campaign specific issue. Those are hard to publish in a mass market supplement because the more specific you get the more narrow the appeal or applicability.

You've asked and answered your own question. See below:

I mean come on, while the hell does the Assassin need spell casting??? Because the creator saw a lazy way to make an Assassin?? I don't think there is anything MECHANICALLY wrong with the Assassin. Just conceptually.

As many people as there are who agree with you, there are an equal number of people who would have seen the spell-less assassin and said "why doesn't he have any freaking spells??????"

I had a class in my book (I've plugged it too many times today. Go or don't go to my website. See if I care. ) where I just wanted the class to have a certain number of spell-like abilities a number of times per day. As this list grew and was pruned and grew again. I finally gave the class spell casting ability and limited the list to the abilities I wanted him to have. Now the PLAYER can decide how many times per day to have each ability. The class is called the animal tamer and the spell list has 3 levels with maybe 5 spells at each level. All of them directly effect animals only. It's a Wisdom based sorcerer basically with an extremely limited list of spells. It's not laziness on my part. It's enabling for the player. Of course, my book is about Enchantment so you probably expect the PrCs to be spellcasters.

As far as least favorite Prc? I would say any and every Prc class that grants random unsubtantiated spell casting for now damn reason!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another prestige class in my book gives the player a choice. She can gain some spell-like abilities usable 1-3 times per day (based on level) or she can improve an existing class every third level. Does that get around your unsubstantiated problem? I'm curious. I like classes that can be customized.

By your standards, the best class in my book is a monk/cleric class dedicated to a goddess described in the book (to illustrate a cleric domain). It has a very role-play oriented requirement. She's a goddess of obediance. The requirement is that you allow yourself to be subject to a dominate person/monster spell and perform a task (which is onerous in your view) for the priest. The challenge is that when you get to the goal the spell ends. You can either perform the requested action or not. If you don't, you have failed to obey and you fail the test. Lawful Neutral is fun. It also requires that the DM add a diety to his campaign. I was tempted to eliminate the requirement so that you didn't need the diety to use the class. In the end I left the requirement in and left it up to the DM to deal with it.

Joe Mucchiello
Throwing Dice Games
http://www.throwingdice.com

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

I suspect the more fluff they put on a PrC- the less dm's that will be interested.

FD

True enough, though I've always found that attitude to be a bit silly.

I like reading well written "fluff" (god, I hate the implied dimissiveness of that phrase) as it relates to a PrC, just to get a better feel for what the designer intended the PrC to represent. Beyond that though, I have no problems, as a player or DM, in completely disregarding that flavor text in favor of my own interpretation.

I've seen A LOT of DMs who say "No, can't use it. There's no organization like that in my campaign."

To which my reply is, why does it matter? Almost universally, PrCs can be used to replicate a concept for a specific character, completely free of ties to ANY organization. So there's no group that teaches the "Super Dooper Spider Fist" martial arts style? Well then, the player who wants his character to have that PrC is simply going to be playing the monk who INVENTED the "Super Dooper Spider Fist" technique.

Not playing in Forgotten Realms, but a player wants the War Wizard of Cormyr PrC? Well, make him a War Wizard of Furyondi, or War Wizard of New York, or whatever. Or, simply let him be a wizard who gains a fundamental knowledge of destructive spells, and the attendant PrC abilities, without assigning any organization to the PrC at all.

Granted, there are a few PrCs that require specific organizations (Mage of the Arcane Order for one), but most of the well written ones are simply themed collections of cool abilities.


Now, as to my least favorite PrC:

There are quite a few which are simply too bland for my tastes. I won't name names, because bland doesn't mean non-functional or non-useful.

There is, however, one that I simply can't stand:

The SACRED FIST from Defenders of the Faith.

Simply too good in comparison to the monk. Most of the abilities the PrC gets are things that the monk should, by all rights, have had.

In other words, its a better martial artist than the martial artist is.


Patrick Y.

 

[ForceUser]

Arcane Rune Press makes a good point. If there's a PrC that wouldn't fit conceptually in my campaign, but I dig it mechanically, I will alter it to suit my setting. For example, the Singh Rager from OA is very cool and I wanted to use it, but the feel of the PrC is distinctly Indian, and my campaign is set in southeast Asia. So I changed the concept and kept the stats. Now, I call the class the Son Lam Disciple ("son lam" is a Vietnamese term for tiger), more commonly referred to as the tiger fighter. It's cool and it fits.