Re: LA
Wow! Steve brings up a bunch of stuff -- not entirely inaccurate or unfair. However, a few of these should be addressed.
First off, if you are going to play the game, avoid the Author and Premier editions. Not only are they more expensive (they were very limited printings, the Author's edition is signed and numbered) but are essentially first printings of the game with all the gaffs and errata one would expect. These mistakes have been cleaned up in subsequent printings of the regular, plain jane vanilla printing. Oh, and don't worry. The author and premier editions are clearly labeled such.
Steverooo said:
"Orders" require you to take certain skills, in a certain order, and always take the first skill as your highest ability... In other words, members of the Soldier Order will always have Weapons as their first (and therefore highest) ability. Characters (called "Avatar Characters", or ACs) can also be Unordered.
A Soldier, for instance, will ALWAYS have Weapons as his first ability (else he isn't a Soldier). Thereafter, he can take other abilities, but will usually take Planning, Ranging, and Physique. ACs also get a fifth ability at 10%. Non-Humans get six or seven abilities, Humans get five. Humans can select all of theirs, but Non-Humans have Excluded, Restricted (can't take at the beginning), and Required skills.
This sounds a lot worse than it really is. Abilities in LA are pretty broad, to the point there is some overlap between a few.
Taking the Soldier example, a full fledged soldier's abilities look something like this:
Weapons -- all activities having to do with weapons, small arms used to strike or send missiles, armor and shields, and the craftsmanship, construction and repair of these things.
Planning -- all activities having to do with command, leadership, preperation, exploration, mapping, logistics, supply, attacking, siege machinery operation, military ambush, defending, etc.
Ranging -- all activities having to do with hazardous travel, scouting, scavenging, smuggling, wilderness survival, camoflauge, concealment, deadfalls, pits, poaching, traps and trapping, etc.
Physique -- all activities having to do with carrying weight, endurance, fitness, lifting weight, muscular development, physical power and strength, etc.
As you can see, a straight forward built soldier isn't exactly hurting in the skills department. These descriptions were lifted straight from the book, so you can see how most abilities are described.
And if none of the Orders float your boat, you can always be Unordered and forgo any restrictions on Ability choice.
Now unlike 3e, where you have a skill like "Move Silently", you have more general skills like "Stealth", in LA. But here, again, is another problem... The skill descriptions are pretty vague and general... What can you do with an ability (a skill)? Whatever the LM says you can! Also, while "Stealth" may be a bit broader than "Hide" and "Move Silently", it is not much more so! Maybe just a touch of "Escape Artist".
See the above Ability descriptions.
In 3e, for instance, your Jump skill and STR (plus a roll on D20) tells you how far you can jump. In LA, there is no mechanic, although the LML (DM's Guide for LA) has a section on which skills allow jumping...
Incorrect. The Lejend Masters book makes it very clear how far an average character can jump and what abilities will augment that. We can argue whether or not that material should have been included in the players book, but it IS covered.
And then there's the question of what to do with unskilled characters... If an AC doesn't have Weapons, already, they are required to take it as that free, fifth ability, at ten percent. If they don't have Unarmed Combat, however, what is their chance to hit with a fist? Back to the LM, again, for a ruling (what rules there are are confusing, and shed no light, on this point)!
I believe this specific question is covered in the FAQ or Errata, not sure which. The fact is, however, the game encourages creative application of Abilities on the part of the player. The GM is there to keep things in line. If you live and die by specificity in the rules (here is the EXACT skill you need and the EXACT difficult modifier you need to beat) then LA may give you an ulcer. OTOH, if your GM style is more subjective and "fly by the seat of your pants" then LA may prove extremely liberating. Everything is relative.
Y'see, instead of starting with cash and buying equipment, you get so many picks on a certain list, depending upon which abilities you took, and in what order... Simple, huh?
Due to wording like:
, with the line wrapping right before the second "Enchantment", people kept asking something like:
"What's the difference between 'Enchantment, Ability possessed -see Extraordinary Activations' and 'Enchantments, choose any, each counting as one item'?" A simple bulletted list would fix that, as would cleaning up the wording:
"If your AC posses the Enchantment Ability, see the 'Extraordinary Activations, Enchantment' section, and choose any one activation."
Can't argue with this one. That pesky comma after "see Extraordinary Activations" really throws people for a loop.
In the end, LA is only as good as the LM, and he really isn't given the tools to do the things he needs to, by the rules. There is no CR system, for instance. Adventures can't be designed for 4-8 characters of 6-9th level, or whatever. Even the ACs' "Ranks" in their order (dependent upon the percentage of their first ability) isn't any indication of character power... All abilities are certainly not created equal!
How many games can this be said about. Certainly d20/3e is only as good as the DM. Same with GURPS, or Vampire. But I disagree the game doesn't give GMs -- and players for that matter -- all the tools they need to play. I certainly haven't had much difficulty, nor have others. Are there places where the rules are vague? Not really -- only the application of those rules. What Abilities do I need to make a "perception check," for instance. There are many that could apply. What exactly does the player want to do? And DnD is about the only game I know of with a HD/CR measurement for "balancing" encounters (and the CR system ain't perfect either). The fact is the system functions differently than a class based system and you have to take that into effect when you are designing encounters.
As for advancement, it takes many "Merits" (XP) to gain even 1% in an ability, and 2,500 (IIRC) to be able to train in order to get a new ability (starting at 20% of the BR, or generally about 11%). Increasing a BR is at least as expensive. You earn about 60 Merits for an hour of average play... Since there are about 40 abilities, you will almost always have situations where you can't do something, because you don't have the required ability... So back to the GM, again, to see if another ability can be used, instead.
Ummmm...how often are DnD fighters left in the lerch for lack of skills?
LA, like DnD, is built around a TEAM dynamic. One character should not be the be all end all, nor an encyclopedia of abilities. However, as you can see with the skill examples for Soldier above, a lack of quantity in Abilities does not mean a lack OF ability.
My intention here isn't to devalue Steve's opinions. Certainly I have my likes and dislikes of different games. And with those I dislike I have very little patience for and am quite unforgiving of their warts, no doubt. I think Steve's done a good job of noting some of the game's warts (except in the jumping example, which is just wrong). As I said, LA is much more about the participants than the game system, and if you are looking for the system to do all the work for you, then you are going to have problems with this game. OTOH, if you are looking for a solid framework that then gets out of your way and lets you make the call, as player or GM, then LA can be a great deal of fun.
I suspect that Steve might also dislike games like Castle Falkenstein, SAGA and Over the Edge, whereas I'm a big fan. LA is far closer to these than 3e, GURPS, Rolemaster, or even Unisystem.
So yes, YMMV, DEFINATELY.
