Lejendary Adventures - Anyone played it?

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reveal said:
I am looking at trying a new FRPG system, just to get away from 3E for a while, and I stumbled across Lejendary Adventures by Gary Gygax. It looks interesting. However, I really can't find any reviews of the material and I don't want to spend a lot of money on something that's crap. So...

Has anyone played it? If so, how is it? How different than 3E is it because it seems like it is very different.

Aside from both sharing the same genre, it's a WORLD away from 3e! For that matter, its a world away from ADnD in about any incarnation. A lot of folks have compared the feel of the game to the original DnD game, freewheeling and fun with lots of room for the GM to move around. This is what attracted me to the game -- that free spirit empowers the GM and players alike.

About the most difficult part of learning (and playing) LA is accepting the terminology. It's almost like going metric, becoming accustomed to terms like Avatar, Activations, ABC, AEP, etc. Once you clear that hurdle (and it doesn't take much) the game flies by. It's a snap to learn, play and GM. Most things come down to a d% roll, with the GM setting a difficulty modifier. If you can handle that, you can play LA.

Starting characters are composed of three Attributes (Base Ratings) and 5-6 Abilities (skills packages). Magic-able characters (Mages, Elementalists and Ecclesiastics to name a few) will begin the game with roughly 6-9 spells.

Here are a few other details:
* LA uses a spell point system. In many cases, you can bump up the strength (damage, duration, etc.) of a spell by spending more spell points on it.
* There are no "spell levels" per se in LA. A character with the appropriate ability (Enchantment, Theurgy, etc) can learn and cast any spell available to them. Spells are "graded" in power level, and higher power grades take longer to cast. Also, some spells (like Heart's Desire -- similar to Wish) have special conditions that make them extremely difficult to cast.
* Armor detracts from damage.
* Called shots and critical hits are built into the system.
* Players can base characters on Orders (a sort of profession template) or not (the Unordered template).

Since the game was released in 1999, I've introduced over a dozen people to it. In only one instance did I have someone dislike it. That guy didn't like the fact that spellcasting was left to an ability check -- he felt it should just work. ::shrug:: (it occurs to me if used the same argument about combat, the players would get really pissed. ;))

Definately give LA a close look. Play it. Make a few characters. Once you get a grasp of the game and get a taste of the freedom it allows you -- as a player or GM -- it will become one of your favorites!

In the near future, the publisher plans to have a free preview of the game up online, which should offer you a great way to try it out at no expense. So if the investment is giving you pause, keep your eyes open for that. :)
 

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Of course I think the LA game system is tops. If I didn't, I would have no business publishing it. As with any RPG around, there will be those who don't like it. Taste varies.

Most of the cmments here regarding the are quite on target in my view.

The system is for imaginative GMs and players who are likewise, and enjoy innovation. "Abilities" are skill bundles and described in broad general terms, so as to allow as much creative freedom as possible to the players. the idea is to apply the general to specific cases if they can. As in life, you don't know until you try. Decisions are indeed left in the GM's hands, for he is the one who will hear the suggested applications that players come up with.

Terminology is altered so as to force the participants to think outside the A/D&D box. The LA game does operate differently, so it's a good idea to think in its terms so as to grasp the system and its mechanics.

While it facilitates combat, it isn't a simulation of weapons play, so fights are quick and deadly. The system enables all sorts of other facets of the RPG to be featured, so that anyone who wants to keep H&S to a minimum has a great vehicle for roleplay, exploration, problem solving, intregue, politics, etc.

In all, I aimed at bringing in archetypes while opening the door to free-wheeling character creation. The beginning "Avatar" is powerful, but the veteran one is far stronger and has more Abilities--purchased with "Merits" (XPs) or otherwise gained through adventuring. Not a few persons who have picked up the LA game have commented on how it recalls their original fun and excitement from their first days of RPGing.

Lest anyone think this is a sales pitch, hold on!

We are in the final stages of readying a pdf for free download. It will be called the LA Game Quickstart or some similar title, and be posted to all the LA game websites, including my home page, www.gygax.com in a couple of weeks or so. Anyone interested then can get a free trial run and not have to spend any money at all to see if they enjoy the system or not.

Cheers,
Gary
 

Re: LA

Wow! Steve brings up a bunch of stuff -- not entirely inaccurate or unfair. However, a few of these should be addressed.

First off, if you are going to play the game, avoid the Author and Premier editions. Not only are they more expensive (they were very limited printings, the Author's edition is signed and numbered) but are essentially first printings of the game with all the gaffs and errata one would expect. These mistakes have been cleaned up in subsequent printings of the regular, plain jane vanilla printing. Oh, and don't worry. The author and premier editions are clearly labeled such.

Steverooo said:
"Orders" require you to take certain skills, in a certain order, and always take the first skill as your highest ability... In other words, members of the Soldier Order will always have Weapons as their first (and therefore highest) ability. Characters (called "Avatar Characters", or ACs) can also be Unordered.

A Soldier, for instance, will ALWAYS have Weapons as his first ability (else he isn't a Soldier). Thereafter, he can take other abilities, but will usually take Planning, Ranging, and Physique. ACs also get a fifth ability at 10%. Non-Humans get six or seven abilities, Humans get five. Humans can select all of theirs, but Non-Humans have Excluded, Restricted (can't take at the beginning), and Required skills.

This sounds a lot worse than it really is. Abilities in LA are pretty broad, to the point there is some overlap between a few.

Taking the Soldier example, a full fledged soldier's abilities look something like this:

Weapons -- all activities having to do with weapons, small arms used to strike or send missiles, armor and shields, and the craftsmanship, construction and repair of these things.
Planning -- all activities having to do with command, leadership, preperation, exploration, mapping, logistics, supply, attacking, siege machinery operation, military ambush, defending, etc.
Ranging -- all activities having to do with hazardous travel, scouting, scavenging, smuggling, wilderness survival, camoflauge, concealment, deadfalls, pits, poaching, traps and trapping, etc.
Physique -- all activities having to do with carrying weight, endurance, fitness, lifting weight, muscular development, physical power and strength, etc.

As you can see, a straight forward built soldier isn't exactly hurting in the skills department. These descriptions were lifted straight from the book, so you can see how most abilities are described.

And if none of the Orders float your boat, you can always be Unordered and forgo any restrictions on Ability choice.

Now unlike 3e, where you have a skill like "Move Silently", you have more general skills like "Stealth", in LA. But here, again, is another problem... The skill descriptions are pretty vague and general... What can you do with an ability (a skill)? Whatever the LM says you can! Also, while "Stealth" may be a bit broader than "Hide" and "Move Silently", it is not much more so! Maybe just a touch of "Escape Artist".

See the above Ability descriptions.

In 3e, for instance, your Jump skill and STR (plus a roll on D20) tells you how far you can jump. In LA, there is no mechanic, although the LML (DM's Guide for LA) has a section on which skills allow jumping...

Incorrect. The Lejend Masters book makes it very clear how far an average character can jump and what abilities will augment that. We can argue whether or not that material should have been included in the players book, but it IS covered.

And then there's the question of what to do with unskilled characters... If an AC doesn't have Weapons, already, they are required to take it as that free, fifth ability, at ten percent. If they don't have Unarmed Combat, however, what is their chance to hit with a fist? Back to the LM, again, for a ruling (what rules there are are confusing, and shed no light, on this point)!

I believe this specific question is covered in the FAQ or Errata, not sure which. The fact is, however, the game encourages creative application of Abilities on the part of the player. The GM is there to keep things in line. If you live and die by specificity in the rules (here is the EXACT skill you need and the EXACT difficult modifier you need to beat) then LA may give you an ulcer. OTOH, if your GM style is more subjective and "fly by the seat of your pants" then LA may prove extremely liberating. Everything is relative. :)

Y'see, instead of starting with cash and buying equipment, you get so many picks on a certain list, depending upon which abilities you took, and in what order... Simple, huh?

Due to wording like:

, with the line wrapping right before the second "Enchantment", people kept asking something like:

"What's the difference between 'Enchantment, Ability possessed -see Extraordinary Activations' and 'Enchantments, choose any, each counting as one item'?" A simple bulletted list would fix that, as would cleaning up the wording:

"If your AC posses the Enchantment Ability, see the 'Extraordinary Activations, Enchantment' section, and choose any one activation."

Can't argue with this one. That pesky comma after "see Extraordinary Activations" really throws people for a loop.

In the end, LA is only as good as the LM, and he really isn't given the tools to do the things he needs to, by the rules. There is no CR system, for instance. Adventures can't be designed for 4-8 characters of 6-9th level, or whatever. Even the ACs' "Ranks" in their order (dependent upon the percentage of their first ability) isn't any indication of character power... All abilities are certainly not created equal!

How many games can this be said about. Certainly d20/3e is only as good as the DM. Same with GURPS, or Vampire. But I disagree the game doesn't give GMs -- and players for that matter -- all the tools they need to play. I certainly haven't had much difficulty, nor have others. Are there places where the rules are vague? Not really -- only the application of those rules. What Abilities do I need to make a "perception check," for instance. There are many that could apply. What exactly does the player want to do? And DnD is about the only game I know of with a HD/CR measurement for "balancing" encounters (and the CR system ain't perfect either). The fact is the system functions differently than a class based system and you have to take that into effect when you are designing encounters.

As for advancement, it takes many "Merits" (XP) to gain even 1% in an ability, and 2,500 (IIRC) to be able to train in order to get a new ability (starting at 20% of the BR, or generally about 11%). Increasing a BR is at least as expensive. You earn about 60 Merits for an hour of average play... Since there are about 40 abilities, you will almost always have situations where you can't do something, because you don't have the required ability... So back to the GM, again, to see if another ability can be used, instead. :p

Ummmm...how often are DnD fighters left in the lerch for lack of skills? :rolleyes:

LA, like DnD, is built around a TEAM dynamic. One character should not be the be all end all, nor an encyclopedia of abilities. However, as you can see with the skill examples for Soldier above, a lack of quantity in Abilities does not mean a lack OF ability.

My intention here isn't to devalue Steve's opinions. Certainly I have my likes and dislikes of different games. And with those I dislike I have very little patience for and am quite unforgiving of their warts, no doubt. I think Steve's done a good job of noting some of the game's warts (except in the jumping example, which is just wrong). As I said, LA is much more about the participants than the game system, and if you are looking for the system to do all the work for you, then you are going to have problems with this game. OTOH, if you are looking for a solid framework that then gets out of your way and lets you make the call, as player or GM, then LA can be a great deal of fun.

I suspect that Steve might also dislike games like Castle Falkenstein, SAGA and Over the Edge, whereas I'm a big fan. LA is far closer to these than 3e, GURPS, Rolemaster, or even Unisystem.

So yes, YMMV, DEFINATELY. :)
 

Col_Pladoh said:

We are in the final stages of readying a pdf for free download. It will be called the LA Game Quickstart or some similar title, and be posted to all the LA game websites, including my home page, www.gygax.com in a couple of weeks or so. Anyone interested then can get a free trial run and not have to spend any money at all to see if they enjoy the system or not.

That's great news! I've really wanted to have a chance to preview the system. I don't like to buy stuff without some kind of preview and I have yet to find a shelf copy to browse.

I look forward to the preview.
 

Re: Re: LA

Golem Joe said:
Ummmm...how often are DnD fighters left in the lerch for lack of skills? :rolleyes:


Yes, but that's only one character class, and it gets a lot of Feats to make up for it. As you point out, these games encourage team dynamics, so there seems to be no be-all/end-all characters in either. In that respect, based on my reading of this thread, D&D and LA are quite similar in focus.
 
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kenjib said:


That's great news! I've really wanted to have a chance to preview the system. I don't like to buy stuff without some kind of preview and I have yet to find a shelf copy to browse.

I look forward to the preview.

Ditto, definitely looking for it. Be sure you let us know about it here.
 

Col_Pladoh said:
Lest anyone think this is a sales pitch, hold on!

We are in the final stages of readying a pdf for free download. It will be called the LA Game Quickstart or some similar title, and be posted to all the LA game websites, including my home page, www.gygax.com in a couple of weeks or so. Anyone interested then can get a free trial run and not have to spend any money at all to see if they enjoy the system or not.

Cheers,
Gary

I want to toss in my praise for this move also. Very cool.
 

reveal said:
I am looking at trying a new FRPG system, just to get away from 3E for a while, and I stumbled across Lejendary Adventures by Gary Gygax. It looks interesting. However, I really can't find any reviews of the material and I don't want to spend a lot of money on something that's crap. So...

Has anyone played it? If so, how is it? How different than 3E is it because it seems like it is very different.

Thanks for your help!
Well it is skill based as opposed to class based , and it also is a bit more rules lite, leaves a lot of room for the lore master to do things and leaves the players with a lot of flexibility. the hardest part about the game is some of the terminology like abc etc.
Ken
 

johnsemlak said:
You might be better off posting at www.dragonsfoot.org They have a Lejendary Adventures forum. Of course, that would probably a pro LA forum.
Well it can't hurt to start a thread here, hmm have to check out dragon foot, like I don't; have enough boards to read.
ken
oh yes LA is going to be an on-line game too.
 

Problems with LA?

I know Steve, and he has some valid concerns, but to me, frankly, its a matter of perspective.

If you're interested in a game thats primarily about combat, I'd say Lejendary Adventure should not be your first choice. Many popular rpgs are about, "what you can kill"... that is NOT LA. LA is about, "what you can do".

IF you want a game with in-depth, hard-n-fast, GM does little more than look up rules, mechanics, LA is also not for you. This game is rules-light in that regard, leaving much up to both the players AND the GM...

Don't get me wrong... I'm a HUGE fan of D&D, although I will confess that the overabundance of rules in 2E, and to a lesser extent, 3E leaves me firmly in the first edition fandom category. The funny thing is: All of my gaming buds that are 2e-ophiles don't play all of the 2e rules - they play what they like and ignore what they don't... so evidently 'liking 2e' is also a matter of perspective :-).

We game test everything that goes into print for LA under Hekaforge right here, in our offices... and one thing that I truly like about it, the one thing that convinced me that this was a project I should devote energy to... was this:

We have within our game test group SEVERAL avatars that have next to no combat skills, and no cambat based abilities per se (Werapons is a fifth choice for the most part).

These avatars are VITAL to every adventure we game test.

VITAL.

The group would have died without them, or at least have simply spun their wheels while making no headway with the adventures in question (Mouth of the Marsh being one extremely good example).

Its about what you can do... not what you can kill.

BTW... I should be getting the final pdf of the free Quickstart Rukles for review today... as should Gary :-). I hope to have them available to all by Friday... but we'll see. It comes with four pre-generated avatars, a small adventure, and all of the rules needed to play as either LM or PC.

We can also change it (hey, its a freebie) based on feedback from all of you fine folks... so once its out there, when you feel the need, vent! We always appreciate it.

I promise I'll be on these boards more often in the future :-)
 

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