D&D General Less is More: Why You Can't Get What You Want in D&D

[Mistwell]

I enjoyed the read, as I enjoy many reads other people complain don't get to "the point" fast enough. Its not all technical writing, no one's getting a grade here, and no one's asking you for money.

That's fair.

 

[Clint_L]

I'm sorry I irritated you.

OK, I'd take issue with that. I like some of what Snarf posts here, and not others. This is an example of one I didn't like due to lack of editing, though I agree with his premise. Snarf didn't get to his thesis statement for literally 7 paragraphs and a video not related to his topic. He wrote far more than you did in your responses to me about...nothing. Paragraph on paragraph that had nothing to do with the topic, as if he were rambling to himself before beginning writing. At some point it should be fair to critique it particularly when the theme is "you can do too much sometimes," right?

Here is what I am talking about. You really think it's unfair of me to say hey, maybe edit your stuff? You show me the "thoughtful and rigorous" you mention in the beginning of this:

You left out another term I used, which was "entertaining." Which is the key difference between most of Snarff's posts and most of, say, mine.

However, the introduction that you cite does a lot more than entertain. It establishes narrative voice and tone. It acknowledges Snarff's long absence in the context of a joke that is also a bit of a satirical dig at the endlessly repetitive threads we have, such as arguing about what to call the upcoming revisions.

As well, it introduces a motif, Monsieur Creosote. Rather than assuming that everyone on this forum will get the allusion, it also offers a link to an entertaining video so you can be included in the joke.

And that motif is important. It will, in fact, be the crux of the argument and will be returned to repeatedly, including in the conclusion.

This is good writing. There is a unique voice, so that it reads like something only Snarff could have written (this is the most important advice I give my students: make it read like something only you could have written). There is good structure, with a clear path from beginning to end. The introduction is funny, it establishes purpose, it informs, and it hooks the audience.

I guess it's not for you. That's a question of taste. But there are a LOT of folks on this forum who could use an editor a lot more than Snarff, and I found your suggestion unfair and unkind. I think the main job of an editor on this forum, aside from correcting some egregious language errors, would be advising folks that if they have already made their point ten times, another ten posts probably isn't going to win the argument. That would definitely get the word counts down.

 

[Guest 7037866]

Perhaps if Snarf had a spoiler somewhere with a "summary"?

I don't consider the writing that entertaining, frankly, but I DO appreciate the concepts of Snarf's threads more often than not. I, for one, am SO MUCH for making less work than piling on more and more, for whatever (RPGs, exercise, life in general...).

I mean, this was my first post (#10 in the thread):

Anyone have a precis of this OP they would like to share?

I just can't deal with all the Snarfiness of it, but firmly believe in the less is more design concept... as long as it fulfills the goal of the design as well.

Which, thankfully, @Alzrius was kind enough to respond to and offer me a summary.

Sometimes, brevity really is the soul of wit.

 

[Mistwell]

You left out another term I used, which was "entertaining." Which is the key difference between most of Snarff's posts and most of, say, mine.

I find you almost always entertaining, and you usually include some comedic note, somewhere.

{notes on introduction}

I didn't think those positives outweigh the negatives but fair enough.

I guess it's not for you. That's a question of taste. But there are a LOT of folks on this forum who could use an editor a lot more than Snarff, and I found your suggestion unfair and unkind.

I think Snarf is open to criticism, and would understand the humor in my saying "TLDR" with a smiley face concerning a thread titled "Less is more".

I don't think he'd think I was being intentionally unkind. I don't know as my other criticism of Snarf is they will post these dissertations and then not engage with responses as if this is a blog rather than a discussion forum. Maybe he will this time?

 

[Maxperson]

@Snarf Zagyg

I’m curious at how long these masterpieces take you to write?

Not too long. I have it on good authority that he's a self-hating bard.

 

[Maxperson]

The source is WOTC's demographics surveys

• According to Wizards’ surveys, the player population recently crossed a point where the majority of current D&D plans are those who started playing the game with the fifth edition. Previously, the most popular version of D&D was still the second edition, published in 1989. (“We actually built fifth edition as a follow-up to second edition,” Crawford said at the panel.)
• The player population for D&D is cross-generational, with the bulk of respondents (48%) identifying as millennials, vs. 19% from Generation X and 33% from Generation Z (born between 1997 and 2012).

Source from article

I wonder how they get that information.

• According to Wizards’ internal studies of the player population, 60% of D&D players are male, 39% are female, and 1% identify otherwise; 60% are “hybrid” players, who switch between playing the game physically or online; and 58% play D&D on a weekly basis.

As far as I know, they don't go around to people's houses, game stores, or game conventions taking surveys.

 

[FrogReaver]

Not too long. I have it on good authority that he's a self-hating bard.

I always suspected as much. So his call to eliminate bards is to get rid of the competition?

 

[Maxperson]

I always suspected as much. So his call to eliminate bards is to get rid of the competition?

No no. He genuinely hated ALL bards. Periodically after he posts enough eloquent OPs, he starts having difficulty reconciling his hatred of bards with what it is that he does, so he has to withdraw from the world for a while. Eventually he with enough creative justifications, he convinces himself that he's not really a bard and returns to the world.

This time he's convinced himself that he's a cat and his OPs are just very creative fence yowling.

 

[Cadence]

No no. He genuinely hated ALL bards. Periodically after he posts enough eloquent OPs, he starts having difficulty reconciling his hatred of bards with what it is that he does, so he has to withdraw from the world for a while. Eventually he with enough creative justifications, he convinces himself that he's not really a bard and returns to the world.

This time he's convinced himself that he's a cat and his OPs are just very creative fence yowling.

Has there been a good Lawyer subclass of the Bard in any edition?

 

[Maxperson]

Has there been a good Lawyer subclass of the Bard in any edition?

I have vague, and probably wrong, recollections of an attorney/lawyer NPC class in some old dragon magazine or something.