TSR [Let's Read] Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules, by Tom Moldvay
- Thread starter Iosue
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Obviously I haven't installed enough stereos! Can you elaborate on the comparison?
TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
Moldvay always seems to be trying to strike the right balance for spelling things out for newbies and leaving the game open enough to keep it interesting (and consistent with his own free-wheeling play style).
That sequence isn't that bad, and its pretty clear. When you have done it a few times and gotten the hand of things, then you can just run things without referring to it most of the time.
Presumably the combat sequence is coming soon...we will see what you think of that.
Bullgrit
Adventurer
We never played encounters by a step-by-step list. We handled encounters just kind of "logically". We played it more like the example story shows it. And speaking of the combat sequence, back in the day, I don't think we ever actually played combats by the step-by-step list, either. It wasn't until a few years ago, that I specifically tried running combat by the step-by-step list. I don't think I ever (as DM) rolled for encounter distance.
Bullgrit
Bullgrit
Iosue
Legend
Sightseeing? No...Combat.
The Combat Sequence
A. Each side rolls for initiative (1d6)
An 18 Dex gives you a +2 for initiative. Halflings get +1. So a Halfling with 18 Dex gets +3 to a 1d6 roll. That's huge.
In the Mentzer DMR, there is an added Intentions phase before initiative, but Moldvay has no such phase, except for defensive movement.
B. The side that wins initiative acts first (if simultaneous all actions are performed by each side at the same time):
Since the winning side goes through all these actions first, they have a huge advantage. On the other hand, this means that magic-users have a small advantage: they hardly ever lose their spells. If they lose initiative, they can choose not to cast that round.
1. Morale checks, if needed (page B27).
Each monster has a morale score between 2 and 12 (highest in the Moldvay bestiary is 12, lowest is 5). Checks are done at DM's discretion, though the game recommends after the first death on either side and when half the monsters have been incapacitated. 2d6 are rolled and if the roll is greater than their morale score, the monsters flee. DM's can also adjust morale up or down a maximum of 2 depending on the situation (unless the monster's morale is 2 or 12). Morale is an optional rule.
2. Movement per round, meleed opponents may only move defensively (spell casters may not and cast spells).
I'm not sure melee can be verbed! But anyway, this was a big controversy with the 5e playtest. How does a losing party prevent the kobolds from just running around the fighter and killing the mage? Per Moldvay, a character is "meleed" when the enemy is within 5'. This dovetails nicely with 4e's (and 5e's) rules! If a creature comes within 5 feet of the fighter (an adjacent square using 1"=5'), they are meleed and may only make a defensive withdrawal (read: shift up to half movement) or retreat (no opportunity attack in B/X, but retreats must be backward).
3. Missile fire combat:
a. choose targets
b. roll 1d20 to hit; adjust result by Dexterity adjustment, range, cover, and magic
c. DM rolls damage
Here's a shock I either never noticed or had forgotten, but the DM rolls damage! It's pretty standard to roll the damage you cause these days, but this gives me an idea. What if you roll damage you receive? I'll cover missile fire in more detail in a later post, but here let me note that short range gives you a +1, and the top end of short range for even a short bow is 50', meaning almost all combat will be at short range. Man, think of the halflings. Halfling with a short bow and Dex 18 is kicking +5 bonus from 5-50 feet! He's got a THAC0 of 14 at 1st level! Up against your typical goblin, he's hitting on 8 or better! Bow wielding halflings are the s**t.
4. Magic spells (roll saving throws, as needed: 1d20)
More to come in the next post, but Saves are Death Ray/Poison, Magic Wands, Paralysis/Turn to Stone, Dragon Breath, and Rods/Staves/Spells. Dwarves and Halflings have the best saves in Basic.
5. Melee or hand-to-hand combat:
a: choose (or be attacked by) opponents
b: roll 1d20 to hit; adjust by Strength adjustment and magic weapons
c: DM rolls damage; adjust result by Strength adjustment and magic weapons
Here's a typical Moldvay simplification: unless missile attacks are specifically mentioned, monsters will only attack in melee. I can see this being useful to a new DM getting a handle on running monsters, but I suspect it was set to the wayside in fairly short order. On the other hand, while PCs may only attack once in a melee around a monster with a multiple attack routine can use all their attacks within one round of combat.
C. The side with the next highest initiative acts second, and so on using the order given above, until all sides have completed melee.Interestingly, if you assume each PC is their own side, and each different type of monster is its own side (when mixed), you get a combat sequence pretty much like how my regular group plays 4e, except that casters can move and cast in 4e. Any thoughts, preferences, experiences with side initiative vs. individual initiative?
D. The DM handles any surrenders, retreats, etc. as they occur.
Rereading it after all these years, surrender and/or retreat has a pretty big part in Moldvay. And yet, I know when we played, monsters pretty much fought to the death. I think most groups played that way, and that tendency led to morale's attenuation and eventual absence from the game. In retrospect, the game would have been more interesting with it.
The Combat Sequence
A. Each side rolls for initiative (1d6)
An 18 Dex gives you a +2 for initiative. Halflings get +1. So a Halfling with 18 Dex gets +3 to a 1d6 roll. That's huge.
In the Mentzer DMR, there is an added Intentions phase before initiative, but Moldvay has no such phase, except for defensive movement.
B. The side that wins initiative acts first (if simultaneous all actions are performed by each side at the same time):
Since the winning side goes through all these actions first, they have a huge advantage. On the other hand, this means that magic-users have a small advantage: they hardly ever lose their spells. If they lose initiative, they can choose not to cast that round.
1. Morale checks, if needed (page B27).
Each monster has a morale score between 2 and 12 (highest in the Moldvay bestiary is 12, lowest is 5). Checks are done at DM's discretion, though the game recommends after the first death on either side and when half the monsters have been incapacitated. 2d6 are rolled and if the roll is greater than their morale score, the monsters flee. DM's can also adjust morale up or down a maximum of 2 depending on the situation (unless the monster's morale is 2 or 12). Morale is an optional rule.
2. Movement per round, meleed opponents may only move defensively (spell casters may not and cast spells).
I'm not sure melee can be verbed! But anyway, this was a big controversy with the 5e playtest. How does a losing party prevent the kobolds from just running around the fighter and killing the mage? Per Moldvay, a character is "meleed" when the enemy is within 5'. This dovetails nicely with 4e's (and 5e's) rules! If a creature comes within 5 feet of the fighter (an adjacent square using 1"=5'), they are meleed and may only make a defensive withdrawal (read: shift up to half movement) or retreat (no opportunity attack in B/X, but retreats must be backward).
3. Missile fire combat:
a. choose targets
b. roll 1d20 to hit; adjust result by Dexterity adjustment, range, cover, and magic
c. DM rolls damage
Here's a shock I either never noticed or had forgotten, but the DM rolls damage! It's pretty standard to roll the damage you cause these days, but this gives me an idea. What if you roll damage you receive? I'll cover missile fire in more detail in a later post, but here let me note that short range gives you a +1, and the top end of short range for even a short bow is 50', meaning almost all combat will be at short range. Man, think of the halflings. Halfling with a short bow and Dex 18 is kicking +5 bonus from 5-50 feet! He's got a THAC0 of 14 at 1st level! Up against your typical goblin, he's hitting on 8 or better! Bow wielding halflings are the s**t.
4. Magic spells (roll saving throws, as needed: 1d20)
More to come in the next post, but Saves are Death Ray/Poison, Magic Wands, Paralysis/Turn to Stone, Dragon Breath, and Rods/Staves/Spells. Dwarves and Halflings have the best saves in Basic.
5. Melee or hand-to-hand combat:
a: choose (or be attacked by) opponents
b: roll 1d20 to hit; adjust by Strength adjustment and magic weapons
c: DM rolls damage; adjust result by Strength adjustment and magic weapons
Here's a typical Moldvay simplification: unless missile attacks are specifically mentioned, monsters will only attack in melee. I can see this being useful to a new DM getting a handle on running monsters, but I suspect it was set to the wayside in fairly short order. On the other hand, while PCs may only attack once in a melee around a monster with a multiple attack routine can use all their attacks within one round of combat.
C. The side with the next highest initiative acts second, and so on using the order given above, until all sides have completed melee.Interestingly, if you assume each PC is their own side, and each different type of monster is its own side (when mixed), you get a combat sequence pretty much like how my regular group plays 4e, except that casters can move and cast in 4e. Any thoughts, preferences, experiences with side initiative vs. individual initiative?
D. The DM handles any surrenders, retreats, etc. as they occur.
Rereading it after all these years, surrender and/or retreat has a pretty big part in Moldvay. And yet, I know when we played, monsters pretty much fought to the death. I think most groups played that way, and that tendency led to morale's attenuation and eventual absence from the game. In retrospect, the game would have been more interesting with it.
Iosue
Legend
Well, that's not unusual. The rules say encounters can happen at what ever distance the situation dictates. The roll is just an option for the DM to take if he wants to mix it up/isn't sure.
And I don't think hardly any groups ever went down the checklist point by point, nor do I think were they intended to. The combat sequence is just there as a guide for DMs, particularly the primary audience of people who have never DM'd before, so they aren't overwhelmed.
WotC_Huscarl
First Post
Actually stepping through the checklist can have an interesting effect on play. DMs get into habits; every encounter unfolds according to the pattern (conscious or subconscious) in the DM's mind. Following the checklist can break that pattern and suddenly, what looked like another routine encounter becomes something that neither the players nor the DM expected.
What impresses me about these rules is how "modern" they are. There's an almost indie-game feel to them when you read them now, completely different from where D&D went once it became AD&D, 2nd Ed, 3E, and 4E.
Steve
What impresses me about these rules is how "modern" they are. There's an almost indie-game feel to them when you read them now, completely different from where D&D went once it became AD&D, 2nd Ed, 3E, and 4E.
Steve
Iosue
Legend
So, a closer look at combat.
Defensive Movement - Once a character is in melee (that is, within 5' of a hostile opponent), their only possible movement is a fighting withdrawal - half one's movement rate backwards. Or, a retreat - full movement straight back, no attacks. The opponent gets +2 to their attack. However it doesn't say that the enemy gets a free attack, like in AD&D. As I interpret it, if you win initiative and decide to bug out, and you have a clear path, you can run away like a Final Fantasy character, but if you have a lower speed than your opponent, they're probably going to catch up to you. If you're faster, you're home free. If you lose initiative, you can still make your run (you made your intentions clear before rolling), but the enemy get's a plus +2 to their attack. The upside is, if you survive, you can take off and they can't follow you unless they win the next initiative as well.
How to Attack - Here Moldvay has the "attack always succeeds on a 20, always misses on a 1". No criticals, but it's interesting to find this in the rules this early; for some reason I'd always thought it came later. Perhaps 1e's combat tables confused me.
This section also has an attack on "unhittable" creatures option. What do you do when you have a monster fighting a monster that can only be hit by silver or magic weapons? Moldvay gives two options. The first is, unhittable creatures can hit unhittable creatures. Alternatively or concurrently, as you like, monsters of more than 4 HD can hit unhittable creatures.
Damage - The first line. "If an attack hits, the DM must determine how much damage the attack has done." How did I miss this? Was it because the guy who introduced me to the game had me roll my own damage? Did I do it like this in the deeps of time, and stop after getting the BECM books, where PCs roll their own damage?
All weapon damage is 1d6 unless variable damage is used. As I've said before, I'd like to start up a game using this rule. However, it does create one of the few holes in the Moldvay rules (and continued into Mentzer, I think). If 1d6 is used for all weapons, no one would ever want to use a two-handed sword, since they would lose AC and have nothing to gain for it (except perhaps role-playing satisfaction?). Two-handed weapons also automatically lose initiative, but as near as I can tell, this only applies if you are using individual initiative and variable weapon damage.
You are dead when HP drops to 0. A day of rest heals 1-3 hp, and clerical spells will heal hp immediately. This is one of my few, few gripes with Moldvay: a higher level character will take forever to heal. Heck, even the classes will differ. Drop the wizard down to 1 hp, and it's possible for him to be back at full strength in one day. Drop a fighter down to 1 hp and it might take him two or three days. What I'd do is just use percentages. Instead of 1-3 hp, it's 10%-30% hp.
Missile Fire - Cover rules are light, and depend heavily on DM adjudication. Moldvay simply explains there's full cover (completely hidden) and then partial cover, which can be a -1 to -4 penalty depending on how the DM judges.
Oil gets two whole paragraphs! One flask makes a pool 3 feet in diameter. Burning oil does 1d8 damage. If thrown and lit on a creature, it will burn and cause damage for 2 rounds before dripping off. A pool of burning oil burns for 1 turn. This is another rule explicitly left to the DM: "That chance of oil catching fire depends on the situation, and is left for the DM to figure out. Touching the oil with a flaming torch should almost certainly cause the oil to light. Other methods may have less chance of success." Holy water basically acts like burning oil for undead (1d8 damage), although it doesn't say anything specific about dripping off.
Saving Throws - As noted above, it's Death Ray/Poison, Magic Wands, Paralysis/Turn to Stone, Dragon Breath, and Rod/Staves/Spells. Or my interpretation: save or die, save to dodge, save to prevent body change, save vs. area effect, and save vs. any other applicable magic. Here we see the first clear indication that adventurers are Special People. The top of the Saving Throw chart is a line for "Normal Man", and their saves suck! Interestingly, their saves are generally one worse than the worst character class save. So the worst PC Dragon Breath save is 16, and the Normal Man saves at 17. But the Normal Man's save vs Paralysis/Turn to Stone (16) is two worse than the worst PC saves (cleric and fighter with 14).
Melee Combat - The Normal Man appears again, now with a THAC0 of 20. Characters start with a THAC0 of 19. Actually THAC0 isn't used, of course, but it's a handy shorthand. The chart also includes a line for 4th or higher level, for NPCs or PCs who've reached 4th level before they've bought the Expert Rules. Initially everyone has the same chance to hit, so a fighter's main advantage is extra damage if the variable damage rules are used. Otherwise, his likely high Str bonus will be the only thing that makes him better at stabbing faces than any other character.
Morale - I've been thinking about player psychology and rules presentation. I think perhaps "optional" might not be the best word. It seems that when a rule is labeled "optional", people reading through to learn the rules probably have a tendency to skip right past it. It probably also carries a certain nuance of "will make your game more complicated". These are perhaps good reasons for Moldvay to have labeled morale as optional. It is an extra thing to keep track of. But using it in a PbEM last year, I found it cut a lot of battles short, and really kept the game moving along.
Retainers do not check morale in combat, unless the danger is unreasonable. I suspect the guideline is if the PCs are thinking about high-tailing it, it's crossed the retainers' minds as well.
Next time - the infamous Silverleaf, Fredrik, Morgan Ironwolf, and Sister Rebecca appear!
Defensive Movement - Once a character is in melee (that is, within 5' of a hostile opponent), their only possible movement is a fighting withdrawal - half one's movement rate backwards. Or, a retreat - full movement straight back, no attacks. The opponent gets +2 to their attack. However it doesn't say that the enemy gets a free attack, like in AD&D. As I interpret it, if you win initiative and decide to bug out, and you have a clear path, you can run away like a Final Fantasy character, but if you have a lower speed than your opponent, they're probably going to catch up to you. If you're faster, you're home free. If you lose initiative, you can still make your run (you made your intentions clear before rolling), but the enemy get's a plus +2 to their attack. The upside is, if you survive, you can take off and they can't follow you unless they win the next initiative as well.
How to Attack - Here Moldvay has the "attack always succeeds on a 20, always misses on a 1". No criticals, but it's interesting to find this in the rules this early; for some reason I'd always thought it came later. Perhaps 1e's combat tables confused me.
This section also has an attack on "unhittable" creatures option. What do you do when you have a monster fighting a monster that can only be hit by silver or magic weapons? Moldvay gives two options. The first is, unhittable creatures can hit unhittable creatures. Alternatively or concurrently, as you like, monsters of more than 4 HD can hit unhittable creatures.
Damage - The first line. "If an attack hits, the DM must determine how much damage the attack has done." How did I miss this? Was it because the guy who introduced me to the game had me roll my own damage? Did I do it like this in the deeps of time, and stop after getting the BECM books, where PCs roll their own damage?
All weapon damage is 1d6 unless variable damage is used. As I've said before, I'd like to start up a game using this rule. However, it does create one of the few holes in the Moldvay rules (and continued into Mentzer, I think). If 1d6 is used for all weapons, no one would ever want to use a two-handed sword, since they would lose AC and have nothing to gain for it (except perhaps role-playing satisfaction?). Two-handed weapons also automatically lose initiative, but as near as I can tell, this only applies if you are using individual initiative and variable weapon damage.
You are dead when HP drops to 0. A day of rest heals 1-3 hp, and clerical spells will heal hp immediately. This is one of my few, few gripes with Moldvay: a higher level character will take forever to heal. Heck, even the classes will differ. Drop the wizard down to 1 hp, and it's possible for him to be back at full strength in one day. Drop a fighter down to 1 hp and it might take him two or three days. What I'd do is just use percentages. Instead of 1-3 hp, it's 10%-30% hp.
Missile Fire - Cover rules are light, and depend heavily on DM adjudication. Moldvay simply explains there's full cover (completely hidden) and then partial cover, which can be a -1 to -4 penalty depending on how the DM judges.
Oil gets two whole paragraphs! One flask makes a pool 3 feet in diameter. Burning oil does 1d8 damage. If thrown and lit on a creature, it will burn and cause damage for 2 rounds before dripping off. A pool of burning oil burns for 1 turn. This is another rule explicitly left to the DM: "That chance of oil catching fire depends on the situation, and is left for the DM to figure out. Touching the oil with a flaming torch should almost certainly cause the oil to light. Other methods may have less chance of success." Holy water basically acts like burning oil for undead (1d8 damage), although it doesn't say anything specific about dripping off.
Saving Throws - As noted above, it's Death Ray/Poison, Magic Wands, Paralysis/Turn to Stone, Dragon Breath, and Rod/Staves/Spells. Or my interpretation: save or die, save to dodge, save to prevent body change, save vs. area effect, and save vs. any other applicable magic. Here we see the first clear indication that adventurers are Special People. The top of the Saving Throw chart is a line for "Normal Man", and their saves suck! Interestingly, their saves are generally one worse than the worst character class save. So the worst PC Dragon Breath save is 16, and the Normal Man saves at 17. But the Normal Man's save vs Paralysis/Turn to Stone (16) is two worse than the worst PC saves (cleric and fighter with 14).
Melee Combat - The Normal Man appears again, now with a THAC0 of 20. Characters start with a THAC0 of 19. Actually THAC0 isn't used, of course, but it's a handy shorthand. The chart also includes a line for 4th or higher level, for NPCs or PCs who've reached 4th level before they've bought the Expert Rules. Initially everyone has the same chance to hit, so a fighter's main advantage is extra damage if the variable damage rules are used. Otherwise, his likely high Str bonus will be the only thing that makes him better at stabbing faces than any other character.
Morale - I've been thinking about player psychology and rules presentation. I think perhaps "optional" might not be the best word. It seems that when a rule is labeled "optional", people reading through to learn the rules probably have a tendency to skip right past it. It probably also carries a certain nuance of "will make your game more complicated". These are perhaps good reasons for Moldvay to have labeled morale as optional. It is an extra thing to keep track of. But using it in a PbEM last year, I found it cut a lot of battles short, and really kept the game moving along.
Retainers do not check morale in combat, unless the danger is unreasonable. I suspect the guideline is if the PCs are thinking about high-tailing it, it's crossed the retainers' minds as well.
Next time - the infamous Silverleaf, Fredrik, Morgan Ironwolf, and Sister Rebecca appear!
Stormonu
NeoGrognard
Backing up a little bit:
Opening "Stuck" Doors.
This is something that's fallen out of favor in my group, I stopped using the rule somewhere in 2nd edition. I figured if the monsters weren't having any problems with the doors that they go through all the time, why should the PCs? Other folks that started with the "stuck" door rule for dungeons, do you still use it? It *seems* this is something that's fallen out of favor.
Opening "Stuck" Doors.
This is something that's fallen out of favor in my group, I stopped using the rule somewhere in 2nd edition. I figured if the monsters weren't having any problems with the doors that they go through all the time, why should the PCs? Other folks that started with the "stuck" door rule for dungeons, do you still use it? It *seems* this is something that's fallen out of favor.
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