Lets Talk Midnight! [ Jerod Please Stay Out ]

[Nightfall]

Dirg,

Maybe Ash is having an off night. Sages are human. (Well some of us! )

 

[Wraith Form]

I have several problems with the Midnight setting.

First, I dislike the basic concept of the setting. Guess that sets me out of the loop straight away. What has happened? Essnetially Sauron has the One Ring back -- okay, different names and world, but the same situation -- the Ultimate Evil has wrested total control of all of creation (well, the world anyway) and there is no way at all that he will ever be defeated. Period. So, with that as a given, I don't even see the slightest point to gaming in the world. No, I'm not fond of "god killing" campaigns, but since there is absolutely no hope for anything even approaching good will ever do more than scrabble on rocks and fight cruelly for survival I cannot even begin to organize a campaign that would suit the tastes of myself or my players.

Second, once the base concept is accepted, I like the concept of little magic, few magic items, etc., yet the Heroic Paths take all that feeling away. Essentially what you have with each Heroic Path is a set list of magical items that can never be taken away from you. Not only that, but you know in advance what magical bonuses you will get, rather than finding more random magical items over the course of time. You are pre-tailored and the power level of the campaign is pre-set. And, for my tastes, the power levels of the Heroic Paths are too high. Of course that is assuming that the characters would actually survive to those levels.

I have other problems, but since these are so basic and fundamental, I cannot see myself ever running (or playing in) the game. I am one of those rare people who find the campaign utterly unappealing.

You've just closed your mind to this without ANY experience in it for yourself. You won't even conceive of reading the material or making an attempt to appreciate it before you shut it out and label it "crap". If you'd said, "I bought the book, read it through cover to cover (giving myself time to think about the material and digest it), and ultimately found myself uninterested," then--although I'd still disagree---it'd be more understandable.

Instead, you've read the posts on these boards, maybe even read the blurb on the back cover in your FLGS (secretly, so your friends don't see you sneaking a peek and blow your cover) and dismissed the setting wholesale.

Feh. You wonder why there's so much prejudice and violence in the world, with closed minds like this.

OK, resume happy day! [/rant]

 

[Dirigible]

Ummm... do you have proof of that, Wraith? For all we know, Wombat has bought and read the MN setting book.

 

[Nightfall]

Dirig,

No but if you read a lot of Wombat's posts of late, he's pretty negative to ANY thing that's not Greyhawk shaped. Or something like that.

 

[Krieg]

I dislike...

OK nothing new there.

Second, once the base concept is accepted, I like the concept of little magic, few magic items, etc., yet the Heroic Paths take all that feeling away.

I kinda agree with this. I really like the Midnight magic system, and other aspects of Midnight, and I don't mind heroic path as a concept, but I'm unlikely to ever use it for the same reasons.

I'm also somewhat in agreement here also. I don't think that a well run/played Midnight campaign needs heroes to get the extra buffs of the heroic paths as it does defeat the purpose of the setting to an extent. What I ended up doing was banning Heroic Paths from the PC classes, but instead allowing them with the NPC classes. So if you want an Ironborn or Juggernaut combative you tack the template onto the Warrior class rather than the Fighter. This has served to let players keep the flavor of the paths without becoming overpowered. It also lets players who have no desire to follow one of the paths not be forced to do so.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

You dissapoint me, Ash... your Sage-fu is weak. You didn;t actually answer Gregors questions!

My apologies to all. This work-load is killing me. That, and the fact that everyone else seems to be doing a good job.

So...yeah.. What they said.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Wombat: I dislike..

Krieg: OK nothing new there.

LOL!

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

This has served to let players keep the flavor of the paths without becoming overpowered. It also lets players who have no desire to follow one of the paths not be forced to do so.

I think it has a lot to do with how you run your game. In mine, we use them. However, the PCs started off as commoners with about 10gp worth of equipment. Their home was destroyed and they travelled 50 miles through freezing weather with very little food. All as 1st level commoners.

They were fearing for their lives before they ever really had to fight anything. Now add in the Weapon Degredation rules from the Tome of Sorrows, the harsher exposure rules, their absolute terror at the thoughts of casting a spell, and the fact that they want see a magical weapon till about 8th level and you are a long way from anything even remotely overpowered.

Now granted, I make use of some optional rules, but it would work without them as well.

 

[Wombat]

You've just closed your mind to this without ANY experience in it for yourself. You won't even conceive of reading the material or making an attempt to appreciate it before you shut it out and label it "crap". If you'd said, "I bought the book, read it through cover to cover (giving myself time to think about the material and digest it), and ultimately found myself uninterested," then--although I'd still disagree---it'd be more understandable.

Instead, you've read the posts on these boards, maybe even read the blurb on the back cover in your FLGS (secretly, so your friends don't see you sneaking a peek and blow your cover) and dismissed the setting wholesale.

Feh. You wonder why there's so much prejudice and violence in the world, with closed minds like this.

OK, resume happy day! [/rant]

Okay, I've taken a bit of flak here, and took no offense, but I feel I must answer here.

I own the book.

I have read through it.

I discussed it with several of my players.

I have gamed since 1976, so I feel I have a bit of a heritage regarding gaming in general and I know what my tastes are.

I do not, now or ever, label the book "crap" -- I say it is not to my tastes and that is that.

No, I have not played the game, but then again, I feel that I can judge a game is like based on reading through the rules and flavour material.

Opinions were asked for here, and I thought I gave a fairly cogent set of objections.

Is the game badly written? No. Is this a game that should be avoided at all costs? No.

Is this a game for everyone? No.

I have my opinion; you have yours. That is fine. I know that I am in a minority position on a lot of topics -- again, I take very little offense there. I did take offense here, and I am sorry that it came to that.

This is all I shall say on the topic.

For those of you who enjoy the game, as always, I hope that you continue to find an excellent gaming experience. While this is not the game for me, I know it is the game for others.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Is this a game for everyone? No.

This is something I definately agree with. In fact, I said as much in my review of it.

I absolutely love Midnight, but some people like setting with a little less hopelessness. Midnight is like Call of Cthulhu in that respect. You'll never kill Cthulhu, but that's not the point.