Level Up (A5E) Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition Is Coming!

Level Up is the working title for a standalone 'advanced 5E' backwards compatible tabletop RPG coming to Kickstarter in 2021 from EN Publishing.

A crunchier, more flexible version of the 5E ruleset which you know and love. If you love 5E but would like a little more depth to the ruleset, Level Up is the game for you!

Level Up is the working codename for a standalone hardcover roleplaying game brought to you by the team which brought you EN5ider Magazine and Mythological Figures & Maleficent Monsters!

Sign up for news about Level Up! This mailing list is for news, surveys, feedback, and playtests. Or simply register your interest in the Kickstarter.

Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

The standalone 'advanced 5E' backwards compatible tabletop RPG!

www.levelup5e.com

This is an ‘advanced’ version of the 5E ruleset, presented as a hardcover standalone game. It adds more customization and depth to the game. Basically, it’s a ‘crunchier’ version of 5th Edition. It's still the game you know and love. We love it too! All your 5E books will be compatible with this new game.

We already have a list of what we want to include in Level Up, although this list is not yet final We’ll be using surveys to adjust that list. We hope to include a fully developed exploration pillar, flexible character choices at each level, a new approach to heritage, martial maneuvers, a ‘cinematic/gritty’ toggle, spell-less ranger and warlord, and followers and strongholds, and more. Keep an eye out for the surveys!

We are also recruiting a diverse team of expert 5th Edition writers. We’ll have more news on that soon.

 

[Garthanos]

Historically, Garthanos is a prominent Warlord fan. I would look twice at any preferences he suggest.

I am surprised, he feels that a Fighter or Rogue class is workable for certain Warlord concepts.

The Warlord class was so versatile you are right a limit of "certain concepts" did run through my head almost after typing it just to be more cautious

But I have been thinking of a unified martial hero class (like looking back at Chainmail and going nuts with 4e and 5e things all over it AND so in for a penny in for a pound.

The first time you might say D&D elaborated a concept of akin to the Warlord AD&D called it a Warrior Lord aka the Fighter iit was the weapon master but also it could be the smart tactical/strategic hero (or less mentioned yet charismatic inspiring hero) this was an abstracted presentation without any mechanics backing it but if you can allow a fighter to make use of Intelligence/Wisdom/Charisma dynamically in battle and allow that to influence allies and enemies heck even the charismatic influence needn't be more than a side effect of how awesome he is. What if the maneuver set had one's for all 4e model battle roles? You might have stances that changed out your primary core mechanic (in 4e rather like if the Berserk who swapped between defender and striker had been explored further one element of the Warlord that didnt get explored in 4e was the Controller model where manipulating the enemy is totally on the table. Think of it this way a wizards spell set has always been potentially ridiculously broad I think truly versatile set of maneuvers on a class able to do morning exercises to shift their focus I think the capability of extraordinary fluid Warrior sort of naturally flows to the surface. I won't say the idea is easy just ideal and interesting to explore.

You may be surprised to hear that "your preference gets demoted to being a side-load addendum to someone else's preference" is distinctly unpopular among fans of Warlords, Defenders, and

Not sure I expected someone to throw the gauntlet so appropriately thank you. My idea may actually not be possible and should take second consideration for expressing the characters well.

There may well be elements of each which are hard to reach without isolating them into different classes for instance : The 4e defender fighter is I think one of the most well written classes : the biting damned if you do AND damned if you don't dynamic of its abilities are astounding so mayhaps more difficult to express in a more unified hero class.

generally crunchy 4e-style combat/mechanics.

Its that latter crunchiness that might help make the other viable.

 

[dave2008]

Heh. I want ONE BIG THING at every level. Something equivalent to a feat at every level.

They can't really do that and stay compatible with 5e. Having the equivalent of a feat (if by feat you mean a 5e feat) every level would create characters significantly more power than "basic" 5e.

 

[Haldrik]

They can't really do that and stay compatible with 5e. Having the equivalent of a feat (if by feat you mean a 5e feat) every level would create characters significantly more power than "basic" 5e.

The fact that certain levels gain feats (ability improvements), suggests the level itself is worth a feat. Likewise, the fact that the Fighter gains extra feats at certain levels, confirms a level is a worth a feat.

 

[dave2008]

The fact that certain levels gain feats (ability improvements), suggests the level itself is worth a feat. Likewise, the fact that the Fighter gains extra feats at certain levels, confirms a level is a worth a feat.

The fact that some levels get nothing would suggest you are think about this incorrectly. A level is not "equal" to anything. In 5e, some levels get things and others don't. Some levels get more than others. This varies by class as well.

If conceptually all 5e feats (including Level Up feats) are the same level of power, than giving a class 20 feats versus 7 (current max - fighter) is going to create a balance issue because the other things offered in 5e at a given level don't always equal a feat. That doesn't mean Level Up can't be designed to offer significant choices at each level, I just don't think it can be a 5e feat equivalent choice at each level and still be compatible with 5e. However, offer "talents" at each level or something new could work, IMO. Then again, I could be wrong.

Personally I think the issue is less about feats and more about offering choices. Like:

1st	+2	Fighting Style, Second Wind
2nd	+2	Action Surge (one use) or Extra Reaction
3rd	+2	Martial Archetype (2 or more feature choices)
4th	+2	Ability Score Improvement
5th	+3	Extra Attack or Power Attack
6th	+3	Ability Score Improvement
7th	+3	Martial Archetype feature (2 or more feature choices)
8th	+3	Ability Score Improvement
9th	+4	Indomitable (one use) or bonus save proficiency
10th	+4	Martial Archetype feature (2 or more feature choices)
11th	+4	Extra Attack (2) or Improved Power Attack
12th	+4	Ability Score Improvement
13th	+5	Indomitable (two uses) or bonus save proficiency
14th	+5	Ability Score Improvement
15th	+5	Martial Archetype feature (2 or more feature choices)
16th	+5	Ability Score Improvement
17th	+6	Action Surge (two uses), Indomitable (three uses) or bonus save proficiency
18th	+6	Martial Archetype feature (2 or more feature choices)
19th	+6	Ability Score Improvement
20th	+6	Extra Attack (3) or Greater Power Attack

Just a rough example, but the idea is that you have a choice at each level.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The fact that some levels get nothing would suggest you are think about this incorrectly. A level is not "equal" to anything. In 5e, some levels get things and others don't. Some levels get more than others. This varies by class as well.

If conceptually all 5e feats (including Level Up feats) are the same level of power, than giving a class 20 feats versus 7 (current max - fighter) is going to create a balance issue because the other things offered in 5e at a given level don't always equal a feat. That doesn't mean Level Up can't be designed to offer significant choices at each level, I just don't think it can be a 5e feat equivalent choice at each level and still be compatible with 5e. However, offer "talents" at each level or something new could work, IMO. Then again, I could be wrong.

Personally I think the issue is less about feats and more about offering choices. Like:

1st	+2	Fighting Style, Second Wind
2nd	+2	Action Surge (one use) or Extra Reaction
3rd	+2	Martial Archetype (2 or more feature choices)
4th	+2	Ability Score Improvement
5th	+3	Extra Attack or Power Attack
6th	+3	Ability Score Improvement
7th	+3	Martial Archetype feature (2 or more feature choices)
8th	+3	Ability Score Improvement
9th	+4	Indomitable (one use) or bonus save proficiency
10th	+4	Martial Archetype feature (2 or more feature choices)
11th	+4	Extra Attack (2) or Improved Power Attack
12th	+4	Ability Score Improvement
13th	+5	Indomitable (two uses) or bonus save proficiency
14th	+5	Ability Score Improvement
15th	+5	Martial Archetype feature (2 or more feature choices)
16th	+5	Ability Score Improvement
17th	+6	Action Surge (two uses), Indomitable (three uses) or bonus save proficiency
18th	+6	Martial Archetype feature (2 or more feature choices)
19th	+6	Ability Score Improvement
20th	+6	Extra Attack (3) or Greater Power Attack

Just a rough example, but the idea is that you have a choice at each level.

There are no levels that get nothing in 5e.

 

[Zaukrie]

Yes, i'd be interested in taking a look, thanks for the offer. One question - what was the incentive for writing something you wouldn't use? Unless it was part of your process.

Part of the process. Also, I thought it was a good idea until I saw it done. Plus, someone else might use some I wouldn't.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

There are no levels that get nothing in 5e.

There is at least one that gets perilously close, however: Warlock 18. No spells, slots, cantrips, fancy arcana, proficiency score increase, or ASI. The one and only thing you get is your final invocation. While not a truly dead level, it's so close that I'm honestly surprised they left it in there. IMO there should've been a pact- or patron-specific ribbon at that level just to make it feel less empty, and to add more spice to those high levels for the people that get there.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

There is at least one that gets perilously close, however: Warlock 18. No spells, slots, cantrips, fancy arcana, proficiency score increase, or ASI. The one and only thing you get is your final invocation. While not a truly dead level, it's so close that I'm honestly surprised they left it in there. IMO there should've been a pact- or patron-specific ribbon at that level just to make it feel less empty, and to add more spice to those high levels for the people that get there.

Huh. That terrible.

Choose a 1-5 level spell with a casting time of one Action or longer. If it’s casting time is an Action, you can cast it as a bonus action. If it’s casting time is 1 Minute, you can cast it as an action. Otherwise, you can cast it in half the normal time. Once you have done so, you cannot do so again until you have completed a long or short rest.

 

[ThatGuySteve]

There is at least one that gets perilously close, however: Warlock 18. No spells, slots, cantrips, fancy arcana, proficiency score increase, or ASI. The one and only thing you get is your final invocation. While not a truly dead level, it's so close that I'm honestly surprised they left it in there. IMO there should've been a pact- or patron-specific ribbon at that level just to make it feel less empty, and to add more spice to those high levels for the people that get there.

I see closest thing to dead levels as ones where you just get an extra use of an existing ability, eg Fighter 13 only gives a 2nd use of Indomitable.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Huh. That terrible.

Choose a 1-5 level spell with a casting time of one Action or longer. If it’s casting time is an Action, you can cast it as a bonus action. If it’s casting time is 1 Minute, you can cast it as an action. Otherwise, you can cast it in half the normal time. Once you have done so, you cannot do so again until you have completed a long or short rest.

Interesting. Not the direction I'd go--like I said, I'd prefer something more ribbon-y rather than mechanical--but not a bad direction to go if mechanical is what you're looking for.

I have a 5e translation of the Summoner I've been chewing on for a while. At that level, it gets a transdimensional pocket space, big enough to fit 5 people and a pile of stuff comfortably. Accessible via a simple ritual to create a doorway into it. Something that could be really useful in narrowly specific contexts, but is mostly just nice to have.

I see closest thing to dead levels as ones where you just get an extra use of an existing ability, eg Fighter 13 only gives a 2nd use of Indomitable.

This is fair, though technically (at least for a pure Fighter 13) Proficiency bonus also goes up. My main issue with the Warlock "just an Invocation" thing is...well, it's sort of like getting a single extra maneuver as a Battlemaster after you already have a bunch. High-level invocations are mostly crap, and when you already have 7 previous invocations, an 8th is in that "well I can't call it bad but are there really 8 invocations that I was really hoping to get?" Even a Blade Pact warlock is going to be scraping the barrel at that point. By comparison, two daily uses of Indomitable per day...I mean, you had no choices, you just got saddled with that thing, but it's a thing you'll almost certainly like having.