Playtest (A5E) Level Up Playtest Document #10: Adept

Welcome to the 10th Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the first 10 levels of the game’s adept class. The adept is a renaming of the monk of O5E, and allows us to portray a wide variety of unarmed combatants.

Level Up Playtest Document #10: Adept — Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

Welcome to the 10th Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the game’s adept class.

www.levelup5e.com

When you have absorbed the playtest document, please take the survey and let us know what you think!

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[Marandahir]

It also brings up a question, though probably too late in the design process, on whether unarmed combat should really be the purview of the monk/adept....or whether it should just be a fighter motiff.

Aka just give the fighter a solid unarmed attack, and let him be the pugilist with this manuevers and skill and xyz. In that case, you actually go harder on the wuxia aspects of the monk. The adept truly becomes a supernatural warrior, probably with wisdom as the primary stat at that point.

Now levelup inherited the 5e aspect of the class, and I think has done a good job letting people try to dial in their level of wuxia vs pugilist. But I think a good case could have been made at the beginning of the project to just give all the puglist stuff to the fighter, and then ask what a 100% wuxia/supernatural fighter type class could look like for the new monk.

Indeed. Monk is kind of like the Ranger - it's really a variant Fighter with Rogue and Cleric motifs (Ranger is a variant Fighter with Rogue and Druid motifs). Isn't there more similarity between a Kung Fu Master, a Jedi Master, and a Samurai like Miyamoto Musashi? Why aren't these all "special" martial artists?

To put another way, Goku, Lucario, Ryu, Kuwabara, and even Link all are able to generate spiritual blasts of power by charging spiritual energy into their fists, blades, etc. That energy is generated because they're really good martial artists from school that have honed their secret techniques over generations of masters passing on the knowledge to their disciples. It doesn't matter if you're a fistfighter or a swordfighter, a Jedi Knight or a Aura Guardian, a Spirit Detective or a Hylian Knight, these techniques are related to martial prowess, not to piety or the study of arcane magical secrets. This is the martial power source in its energy damage typess as opposed to reflected in bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage.

I have no problem with the Monk being a specialized class. It does ask, what is the role of the core Fighter in relationship with the Monk? Why isn't Ki Points the same resources as Superiority Dice?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Indeed. Monk is kind of like the Ranger - it's really a variant Fighter with Rogue and Cleric motifs (Ranger is a variant Fighter with Rogue and Druid motifs). Isn't there more similarity between a Kung Fu Master, a Jedi Master, and a Samurai like Miyamoto Musashi? Why aren't these all "special" martial artists?

To put another way, Goku, Lucario, Ryu, Kuwabara, and even Link all are able to generate spiritual blasts of power by charging spiritual energy into their fists, blades, etc. That energy is generated because they're really good martial artists from school that have honed their secret techniques over generations of masters passing on the knowledge to their disciples. It doesn't matter if you're a fistfighter or a swordfighter, a Jedi Knight or a Aura Guardian, a Spirit Detective or a Hylian Knight, these techniques are related to martial prowess, not to piety or the study of arcane magical secrets. This is the martial power source in its energy damage typess as opposed to reflected in bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage.

I have no problem with the Monk being a specialized class. It does ask, what is the role of the core Fighter in relationship with the Monk? Why isn't Ki Points the same resources as Superiority Dice?

My favorite rendition of the monk is the Swordsage from the Book of Nine Swords from 3.5ed. It was exactly like you described.

 

[Marandahir]

My favorite rendition of the monk is the Swordsage from the Book of Nine Swords from 3.5ed. It was exactly like you described.

My ONLY issue with the Swordsage is that by its very name, Swords are defined as the norm, while the story behind the class should work just as well with any other weapon. I have the same issue with class names like The Hexblade, Pact of the Blade, Bladesinger, Swordmage, Duskblade, etc… a good class name expands the possibilities to the limits of the player's imagination within the concept of the class.

Otherwise yeah, the Swordsage is probably the best Monk out there. I'd argue that it directly led to our current Kensei Monk that can use blades, etc.

 

[Morrus]

It also brings up a question, though probably too late in the design process, on whether unarmed combat should really be the purview of the monk/adept....or whether it should just be a fighter motiff.

Aka just give the fighter a solid unarmed attack, and let him be the pugilist with this manuevers and skill and xyz. In that case, you actually go harder on the wuxia aspects of the monk. The adept truly becomes a supernatural warrior, probably with wisdom as the primary stat at that point.

Now levelup inherited the 5e aspect of the class, and I think has done a good job letting people try to dial in their level of wuxia vs pugilist. But I think a good case could have been made at the beginning of the project to just give all the puglist stuff to the fighter, and then ask what a 100% wuxia/supernatural fighter type class could look like for the new monk.

That would be a different game to the one we're making though. I can certainly see a 5E variant with different class roles to O5E, but that's not this game.

 

[dave2008]

Having to consult the Fighter packet to play an Adept is unhelpful design.
Having to calculate a central resource when an existing column could give me the number instead is unhelpful design.

That is why it is a playtest - put those thoughts and comments in the survey to improve the game!

 

[Marandahir]

Indeed. I'm still trying to figure out what Level Up is trying to be as a 5e variant, though.

 

[dave2008]

Indeed. I'm still trying to figure out what Level Up is trying to be as a 5e variant, though.

Really - it seems very clear to me. It is an "Advanced" 5e (thus A5e) compared to the "Basic" 5e of O5e.

Off the top of my head, Advanced meaning:

• More choices in character creation and level up
• More strategic and tactical options
• More definition (complexity) in the exploration and social pillars
• More definition (complexity) in item creation
• More interesting and challenging monsters (if you want) with more lore and RP suggestions.
• etc.

 

[dave2008]

I have no problem with the Monk being a specialized class. It does ask, what is the role of the core Fighter in relationship with the Monk? Why isn't Ki Points the same resources as Superiority Dice?

Because the feed back from the playtest was negative for a shared mechanic (superiority dice) so they developed different systems for different classes.

Personally I would have preferred a shared mechanic, but I can't really blame the D&D team for listen to their customers.

 

[Faolyn]

Because the feed back from the playtest was negative for a shared mechanic (superiority dice) so they developed different systems for different classes.

Personally I would have preferred a shared mechanic, but I can't really blame the D&D team for listen to their customers.

Just to add to this, I remember seeing the responses when they put out UAs with fighter archetypes that used superiority dice--everyone (on reddit, at least) seemed to hate it, seeing it as boring and too much like the Battle Master. Maybe people don't like superiority dice in general?

I'm with you; personally, I would have liked to have more shared mechanics and fewer individual subsystems.

 

[dave2008]

Just to add to this, I remember seeing the responses when they put out UAs with fighter archetypes that used superiority dice--everyone (on reddit, at least) seemed to hate it, seeing it as boring and too much like the Battle Master. Maybe people don't like superiority dice in general?

I'm with you; personally, I would have liked to have more shared mechanics and fewer individual subsystems.

IIRC, the playtest at one point had them for Rogue's too. I thought it could be a nice mechanic to use for all martial characters, but I guess it was not to be.