D&D 5E Levitate is a save-or-die spell

[Lanefan]

That's not really that hard. Actions don't happen simultaneously, so assuming the target failed both saves, he would be subject to movement by both casters on their respective turns, per the spell's text on what the caster can do to the target.

And that's also absolutely horrible; and just more 3e-think.

Yes the actions (of any kind, not just this) are only dealt with on a player's "turn" but they're assumed to be ongoing in the fiction throughout the whole round, otherwise what you end up with when you try to visualize it is ridiculous.

 

[Lanefan]

Wind blowing against a man sized object suspended on a wire also does not move the man like he's weightless.

No, but it'll still get him swinging on the end of said wire a bit, based on a few factors: wind strength, size of person and clothing, and whether or not the person is intentionally trying to present more or less surface for the wind to push against.

Now can we talk about the rules and magic, as opposed to physics?

No, because as the rules define the physics of how the spell functions and because we need that knowledge in order to make rulings around the spell, we need to know what those physics are.

There is nothing in the text of the spell which says you are weightless. Weightlessness, even in just one direction, would have a lot of ramifications for other rules and would have to be in the text to have that effect.

Problem is, if you're not weightless many other worms come crawling out of cans.

First off: if you're not weightless then what's supporting your weight? If, as someone suggested, it's as if you're standing on a platform then what's preventing you from just stepping off it and falling to the ground? If it's like there's a wire pulling you up we need to know that, and how-where it's attached and-or bearing your weight, as that would affect your ability to do various things such as move or twist or shoot an arrow from a bow.

If the spell is supporting your weight evenly from every part of you then the net effect is the same as being weightless. Ditto if the spell is in effect neutralizing gravity on you.

Also the spell doesn't put you in an invisible vertical tube, either literally or figuratively. The caster can only control your elevation above the ground, not your geographical position relative to what's below you; if the caster can also control your geographical position that turns Levitate into Telekinesis, which is tons more powerful.

 

[Maxperson]

Under the effects of a spell you move at HALF SPEED when pushing against a ceiling (as if you are climbing). Why would that be, if you are weightless?

Go watch a space documentary and see if they move as fast as someone on the Earth moving at full speed. I'll save you some time. They don't. They move fairly slowly.

A few years back NASA did an experiment to see how fast people would run on the moon. Turns out that it was about 3/4 here on Earth. And that was with some gravity and friction to aid them in running with their legs, something that the person using just their hands on a ceiling wouldn't have nearly as much of. The above person is lucky that WotC isn't interested in mirroring reality, or they'd not even be moving at half.

 

[Maxperson]

And that's also absolutely horrible; and just more 3e-think.

Yes the actions (of any kind, not just this) are only dealt with on a player's "turn" but they're assumed to be ongoing in the fiction throughout the whole round, otherwise what you end up with when you try to visualize it is ridiculous.

It's ridiculous no matter how you slice it. If 30 goblins beat you on initiative in 1e, 2e, 3e, 4e or 5e, they will all be able to move from behind you to in front of you and cut off your escape from the room. That would be impossible in simultaneous combat. You can assume whatever you want, but if the above is possible, and if you use initiative it is, then combat is simply not simultaneous. However, given how unwieldy combat would be if it tried to be simultaneous with more than a small handful of combatants, we have to just accept that unrealistic combat is the way it is in order for us to have fun.

 

[Lanefan]

It's ridiculous no matter how you slice it. If 30 goblins beat you on initiative in 1e, 2e, 3e, 4e or 5e, they will all be able to move from behind you to in front of you and cut off your escape from the room. That would be impossible in simultaneous combat. You can assume whatever you want, but if the above is possible, and if you use initiative it is, then combat is simply not simultaneous.

Yes, RAW initiative gives stuff like that. Doesn't make it good.

However, given how unwieldy combat would be if it tried to be simultaneous with more than a small handful of combatants, we have to just accept that unrealistic combat is the way it is in order for us to have fun.

Simultaniety isn't unwieldy at all. Nor is splitting out those 30 goblins into, say, six batches of 5 goblins each, with each batch getting its own initiative - some will beat the PCs' initiatives, others won't, thus only some will get to the door if that's what they're trying to do.

Which brings up another serious headache with hard-coded turn-based play: a character (or opponent) doesn't so much move from A to B on it action as kind of micro-teleport there; there's no RAW consideration given to where a character actually is at different points in the round. Highly relevant if said character might be running through the spot where a lightning bolt is about to blast through...

 

[keynup]

It's almost like we need 2 versions of Levitate;

1. An elevator version you cast only on friendlies
2. A combat version that's like tying a giant balloon to someones pants

 

[Mistwell]

That sounds very much like 3e-think there: nothing happens unless a rule says it can.

Bleah!

Whatever happened to good old common sense?

My common sense tells me levitation is not weightlessness in one direction, given the only thing it says about moving in that one direction is you can move HALF speed by pushing off a fixed object. If you were weightless, you'd move far faster than half speed. It would be easier to move in that direction, not harder.

 

[Mistwell]

Go watch a space documentary and see if they move as fast as someone on the Earth moving at full speed.

They can move much faster in fact than someone on Earth moving at full speed if they shove off an object. All of their training is to move as little as possible because of that. They're moving slowly because they don't want to flying off at high speed into a wall or instruments, because it's in tight quarters with delicate stuff around them. Lack of gravity does in fact remove an impediment to movement.

 

[jaelis]

I was curious so I looked up the history of the spell. It has always been 2nd level (except in 4e where it was just a drow racial power).

AD&D (1e): Can target unwilling creatures, they get a save to negate. Horizontal movement is "not empowered by this spell, but the recipient could push along the face of a cliff, for example, to move laterally." There is no mention of penalties for fighting while levitated.

2e: Can target unwilling creatures, save to negate. Horizontal movement is the same as in 1e. A levitated creature attempting to make a missile attack takes a -1 penalty that increases by 1 each round, resetting if you take a round to stabilize. Lack of leverage makes it impossible to load a medium or heavy crossbow.

3e: Can only target yourself or a willing creature. "You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could clamber along the face of a cliff, for example, or push against a ceiling to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed)." Both ranged and melee attacks take the same escalating penalty as in 2e.

4e: Target self only, it lets you slowly fly in any direction.

The 5e version seems closest to the 1e version, FWIW.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, RAW initiative gives stuff like that. Doesn't make it good.
Simultaniety isn't unwieldy at all. Nor is splitting out those 30 goblins into, say, six batches of 5 goblins each, with each batch getting its own initiative - some will beat the PCs' initiatives, others won't, thus only some will get to the door if that's what they're trying to do.

Which brings up another serious headache with hard-coded turn-based play: a character (or opponent) doesn't so much move from A to B on it action as kind of micro-teleport there; there's no RAW consideration given to where a character actually is at different points in the round. Highly relevant if said character might be running through the spot where a lightning bolt is about to blast through...

That mitigates it somewhat, but so long as while my PC is already in motion towards the exit, a Goblin can go from a complete standstill 50 feet behind me to 10 feet in front of me to cut me off before I can move that last 10 feet(and it can), combat just isn't going to be anything other than absurd. I've accepted that about D&D. It's just not realistic, nor simultaneous. If it was, that goblin would generally not be able to beat the PC to that doorway.