D&D 5E Light release schedule: More harm than good?

I can imagine some parents walking into a gaming store around Christmas 2017 and saying "My kid wants to play D&D, what do I need to buy?" and to have some well meaning game store owner say something like "Well, they'll want to get the 3 Core books so that they have monsters to run, information on how to run and play the game.

If he has knowledge of the game and parents come in asking that question, 9 times out of 10 the salesman is going to point to the core 3 and leave it at that.

You also mentioned about new content entering your game. So does Wizards need to put a stop in place because you can't take the time to say no and control what enters your game?

Loads of products don't keep people from playing the game. History really hasn't shown this nor does the present. I don't really see anyone complaining about coming into the Drizzt novels, or the Dresden Files. If you haven't read those books before then how would you know where to start? The Drizzt series has tons of books, but yet there are still new readers coming on board.

The problem I see right now is Wizards failed to put in an appropriate introduction in the PHB. When you open Homeland, you will see a list of the next few books in the series in order to give you a starting point so you will know where to go after you've finished that first book. Same goes in the other Drizzt series books. Wizards failed to do this with 5th edition. Page 1 should have been a list of the three books a group needs to purchase in order to begin their journey. That way, a parent coming in can flip open the book to page one and see that they would probably need to buy the DMG and MM on top of the PHB.
 
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I may not agree with the premise of this thread, but let me play Devil's Advocate a bit. There may be potential harm in not feeding the more dedicated fans some of what they want. We are quite important in spreading love for role playing and D&D. I don't think that means a faster release schedule, or that we need it right now, but we do thrive off of new content.

Personally, I think the best balance would be to get some form of subscription based content going. Something that goes straight to the dedicated fans and doesn't create a barrier to entry for newcomers.

I'd take it one further. Let's say that Princes of the Apocalypse is the template. Every 3 months they release a new Level 1-20 (or 1-15 or whatever) campaign with a book or two. In addition to that they release a PDF or website full of player crunch.

What if they slightly increase that. Eventually they get from 8 (4+4) books per year to 12 (6+6) to whatever they're comfortable with. Always pointing out that the 3 core books are all you *really* need. Rotate through the different worlds.

The player buys a PHB and downloads the free PDFs/browses the website. They put the onus of purchase of anything else on the DM.

They build the brand and the brand awareness. Hasbro sets up interviews and article opportunities. Gets them in guest content in mainstream news sources. Build the user base. Build the brand awareness.

Make a movie.

Get a cartoon on cartoon network. I see this as the adventures of Drizzt. Same vein as the Tartovsky Star Wars cartoons.

Build the brand.

Build the target audience to where it can support more toys. Plushies. Models (i.e. Miniatures). Board games. Video games.

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The name awareness for Dungeons and Dragons is out there. Thanks to the religious nuts, everyone has heard of it. The big question is if Hasbro and WotC can turn what D&D is now into something bigger, or if it just continues to be a product that makes money some years, and loses money other years while the userbase slowly dies off.
 

If he has knowledge of the game and parents come in asking that question, 9 times out of 10 the salesman is going to point to the core 3 and leave it at that.
Maybe, maybe not. I've seen a lot of game store employees who wouldn't have the foresight to do that.

You also mentioned about new content entering your game. So does Wizards need to put a stop in place because you can't take the time to say no and control what enters your game?
I've definitely walked into a board game store and said "Wow..that game has 8 expansions? I think you have to REALLY like that game to get into it, otherwise you're looking at a large investment for nothing." I've definitely considered whether to buy a game or not based entirely on how many expansions were available.

So, yes, I believe it is incumbent on Wizards to make sure to release splat books at a slow enough pace that it doesn't overwhelm my game. "Controlling what enters my game" is a lot of work. It requires that I read through the book in its entirety in order to make sure there aren't any hidden synergies between abilities that will make one too powerful if I allow another one in. Reading a book generally takes me about 5-10 hours of dedicated reading time. Which is why I haven't even finished reading the Monster Manual or DMG yet. When my players start asking me if they can be stuff from the new book starting the week after the book comes out, I need to push aside things I'd rather do to make time to fully read and understand the book.

I haven't actually been doing that. I've been relying on WOTC to keep things balanced and just allowing everything. Unfortunately, that has come back to bite me in the past. Books coming out too quickly meant a lack of quality control on WOTC's end. I hope that books coming out less often will mean that'll be less of an issue.

However, most of the time the problem doesn't come from just one book. The problem comes from having too many options. Options interact with each other and the more interactions there are the more likely one combination of options will come out overpowered. Keeping the options low means lowering the chance this will happen. This is one of the major reasons I'm enjoying 5e right now. The lack of options means I'm not having rules arguments about weird interactions between stuff from 3 different books every session. Also, the low number of options is keeping my player's power gaming tendencies in check. People aren't constantly discussing their builds and the builds of the next 3 characters they plan on playing when this one dies.

Adding a lot of material will break that.

Loads of products don't keep people from playing the game. History really hasn't shown this nor does the present. I don't really see anyone complaining about coming into the Drizzt novels, or the Dresden Files. If you haven't read those books before then how would you know where to start? The Drizzt series has tons of books, but yet there are still new readers coming on board.
You haven't been the same places I've been then. Nearly every thread I've ever read about the FR has a bunch of people showing up saying they hate the Realms because they feel overwhelmed by the amount of information available for it and they feel the need to know it ALL but it would take years of reading to read through all of it so they avoid it.

There will always be people willing to put in that effort because they are really dedicated. But most won't.

The problem I see right now is Wizards failed to put in an appropriate introduction in the PHB. When you open Homeland, you will see a list of the next few books in the series in order to give you a starting point so you will know where where to go after you've finished that first book. Same goes in the other Drizzt series books. Wizards failed to do this with 5th edition. Page 1 should have been a list of the three books a group needs to purchase in order to begin their journey. That way, a parent coming in can flip open the book to page one and see that they would probably need to buy the DMG and MM on top of the PHB.
Wizards doesn't want to give people that impression, though. Most players get into the game by joining an established group. Which means they aren't DMing and don't need a MM or a DMG. They likely enjoyed the game enough that they want their own PHB to reference during the game. Then they "graduate" to DMing in a year or two after they start playing. Then they get the extra books. By that point, the players should be very familiar with what books they need.

That's how I started playing D&D back in the day. I joined a group of people I met on BBSes and a couple of weeks later, I bought a PHB. I didn't get any more books for a year or two. Then, I went a little crazy. ;)

Still, WOTC wants there to be a path to start the game at around $50 without insinuating that you ever need to buy another book. They want the choice to be between that new video game for $60 dollars and being able to play D&D for $50.

Each book that is on the shelf is another reminder that you need to spend more and more money to "complete" your D&D game. Which is a barrier to entry for a lot of people.

Sure, the vast majority of the people here are mega nerds who are fairly obsessed with D&D and therefore the idea that someone would be turned off by more awesome books seems completely alien to us, but I remember when I first started being really paranoid about not being able to play the game "properly" if I didn't buy ALL the books.
 

You haven't been the same places I've been then. Nearly every thread I've ever read about the FR has a bunch of people showing up saying they hate the Realms because they feel overwhelmed by the amount of information available for it and they feel the need to know it ALL but it would take years of reading to read through all of it so they avoid it.
I just want to point the bold part out.

So if the people you know go to a party and it's load with food, do they feel the need to eat all of it? Would the hosts need to put out very little food because of the fear that their guests will gorge themselves?

I just don't buy this argument. Of course you have your exceptions, but most complaints about the Realms "having too much stuff" is just bogus. 4th edition tried the less route and look what happened to the Realms, most of the fans that gave their money to Wizards left. It wasn't just the Spellplague, it was the bare bones material we got.

Unless gamers are a bunch of people with compulsive disorders, this argument just doesn't hold up.
 

I'm curious if the OP thinks Clue was abandoned because they never releases continual expansions with new murders, victims, rooms, and weapons.

Paizo slowed their release schedule way the eff down, from the monthly hardcovers of WotC to 3 books a year. This has helped the game last longer than any other 3e variant (5+ years versus the 3 or 3.0 and the 5 or 3.5e), but the game has reached saturation. I'm pretty much done buying the hardcovers. I might buy the PDFs for review purposes, but I have enough content on my shelf for 3-4 more campaigns without doubling concepts.

Now, if Pathfinder hadn't gone to monthly Player Companions and crunch campaign books that might have helped, but after the first three hardcover accessories any extra crunch slipped into "optional" or "bloat" territory. Paizo could have called the line "done" as early as 2011,

WotC going with a couple accessories each year, with fewer pages of crunch... that can delay the "done" point when people can easily ignore future content. And it can offset when the game becomes bloated. That prolongs the lifespan of the edition.

Still... some other content for the other 10 months of the year would be nice. Smaller adventures would be keen.
 

Though, I think all products add to bloat. I think WOTC is definitely looking at the experience that new players have when trying to get into the game. I can imagine some parents walking into a gaming store around Christmas 2017 and saying "My kid wants to play D&D, what do I need to buy?" and to have some well meaning game store owner say something like "Well, they'll want to get the 3 Core books so that they have monsters to run, information on how to run and play the game. Then, there are a bunch of options that you could also get to help them. For instance, there are campaign settings for Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Greyhawk, Spelljammer, and Ravenloft. Each of them has information on one of the worlds they could run their game in. Also, there are adventures for sale if he doesn't want to come out with his own. There are 7 adventures, with a total of 10 books if you wanted them all. In addition to that, there are splatbooks for each of the classes with more information about them if they want to get more detailed and have more options. Also, we have minis available."

Right now parents walk into B&N or look on Amazon and there is no clue to be had as to what to buy. Nine times out of ten, the B&N employee doesn't know.

Here's what I see when I search B&N and Amazon for Dungeons and Dragons:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/dungeons-and-dragons?store=allproducts&keyword=dungeons+and+dragons

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=dungeons+and+dragons

Amazon is way better, but still not big on the explanation. With any luck the kid has already researched this and has tossed a couple of Amazon links to his parents.

This search comes up with

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...q=what do i need to play dungeons and dragons

It comes up with a little good information. wizards.com/dnd doesn't really answer the question. Lots of references to 4th ed.

What I really want to see them do SEO optimization for is a "What do I need to buy" that lists the three core books, the starter set, and some dice.

EDIT: Here's the page that WotC should want to show up at the top. A skimming shows that it's a very basic and concise explanation.

http://cassandracae.hubpages.com/hub/What-Do-You-Need-To-Start-Playing-Dungeons-and-Dragons
 
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If he has knowledge of the game and parents come in asking that question, 9 times out of 10 the salesman is going to point to the core 3 and leave it at that.

Honestly, I would more likely assume they would point to the Starter Set than the 3 core books. It's in the name "Starter" and has Dungeons and Dragons emblazoned on it as well as "Everything you need to start playing the world's greatest roleplaying game". Then on the back, it says to expand the adventures with the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual. I don't know if the adventures point to these three books at all as I don't own them, but I would expect that they do. I would hope that the consumer would be at least prescient enough to 1. Look for D&D in their store. 2. Pick the "Starter Set" as the first thing. I know we commonly assume people outside our hobby are idiots, but come on, give them a little bit of a break. :P
 

Honestly, I would more likely assume they would point to the Starter Set than the 3 core books. It's in the name "Starter" and has Dungeons and Dragons emblazoned on it as well as "Everything you need to start playing the world's greatest roleplaying game". Then on the back, it says to expand the adventures with the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual. I don't know if the adventures point to these three books at all as I don't own them, but I would expect that they do. I would hope that the consumer would be at least prescient enough to 1. Look for D&D in their store. 2. Pick the "Starter Set" as the first thing. I know we commonly assume people outside our hobby are idiots, but come on, give them a little bit of a break. :P

Well that makes sense.
 

None of the people who are asking for more content want 3 books a month. I think WotC just can't seem to pick a middle ground. I thought they were going to cater to the GM for this edition. So far I haven't seen it. Adventure Paths aren't tools for most GMs. They are for people who don't have the time to do anything else. We need modules and we need setting material. Everyone is crying for the settings from 2e. Hell, I was enjoying the Nentir Vale stuff.

Also feel like they are being really snarky with us. Paraphrased : "We didn't cancel anything because it was never announced!" and "We will only support one official setting and that's the Multi-verse" are just nonsense answers. The worst one is "I don't remember how many pages because I'm working on stuff for 2017!" That's a bunch of BS. 3 months ago you were still working on the DMG! And to tell you the truth it shows. The DMG feels unrefined to me. Remarks like that are insulting because I don't care that they are working on 2017. I'd like to know what is coming out this year. So far it's "Nothing I want to buy"
 

Paizo's Player's Guides to various APs are a far cry from what it seems Wizards will be doing with the Princes of the Apocalypse PG. POTAPG is supposed to have new races (genasi, possibly more) as well as various new player options. A Paizo PG is more of a teaser for the AP, and telling you what options will be somewhat useful. Things like "If you're a ranger or other class with favored enemies, consider Dragons, Native Outsiders, Goblins, and Magical Beasts, because you'll be fighting those a lot" or "If you're a divine spellcaster, Torag, Gozreh, and Desna makes particularly useful patrons in this AP."

Most AP PGs don't have much in the way of actual crunch other than campaign traits, which are essentially ways of bribing PCs into making their characters have connections to the adventure. Some do present additional mechanics, and when doing so those mechanics are usually the focus of some part of the AP - sailing rules for the pirate AP, or dominion rules for Kingmaker.

That's why I mentioned the part on improving on it a bit further into my post.
 

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