D&D 5E Limited Wish - Money Maker?

[jgsugden]

D&D is an RPG, a role playing game. Characters play a role in a story. Taking a natural motivation, such as greed, and working it into the game is a story opportunity, not a detriment.

Let's say the PC succeeds in turning this into a money making scheme. Let's say they open up a Heroes' Feast deli and charges 2500 gold to partake. That is 2500 every 2.5 long rests during down time, and it is considered to be a lot of money in the setting.

That creates a lot of opportunities for stories.

• The Genie might decide to teach you a lesson about greed and twist your wish to punish it.
• An underworld group might see the opportunity and blackmail you into using your wish for their benefit.
• The local freedom fighters might paint you as a villain for using your limited wish for profit when it could be used to save people.
• A royal might demand you provide him with the benefit of the wishes as part of your taxes.
• That many Heroes' Feasts might become addictive. When you go off to adventure, perhaps the loyal customers object and try to keep you from leaving... making you as much a prisoner as the Genie.
• Your Genie Noble patron may be using you to recruit more followers to gain power. That may be for an evil cause.

When a player or character shows you something that stands out, take a moment to figure out how you can use it to your own ends.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Maybe "abuse" wasn't really the most accurate term since I've never seen a bunch of gold ruin a high level 5e game. Most games I've played in don't have an unlimited magical wal-mart and the inability to spend gold as the game progresses is a common criticism of the edition. Having a genuine hoard of treasure as a an RP aspect of being a genie is pretty important to my concept and I'm wondering if there is a mechanical way I can make this happen in a simulationist mode instead of just hoping the DM buys into the concept as an epilogue to the campaign.

Why not just talk to your DM?

We could make suggestions, but depending on how your DM handles things, those could easily be shut down. For example, some DMs might allow you to Fabricate unlimited suits of plate mail and sell them at a significant profit. Others might consider the demand for such a product and you might find it difficult to make any sales whatsoever. And that's if you don't attract the ire of the Guild of Armorers.

IMO, it is better to collaborate with your DM. If you do, you know they're on board and your approach has the potential for success.

 

[NaturalZero]

D&D is an RPG, a role playing game. Characters play a role in a story. Taking a natural motivation, such as greed, and working it into the game is a story opportunity, not a detriment.

Let's say the PC succeeds in turning this into a money making scheme. Let's say they open up a Heroes' Feast deli and charges 2500 gold to partake. That is 2500 every 2.5 long rests during down time, and it is considered to be a lot of money in the setting.

Starting a restaurant would be cool RP but definitely a thing that would be an epilogue plot, the way I imagine this campaign going. My character is technically a warforged though, so I could spend 500 years turning my business into a franchise deal. Genie Gyros?

We could make suggestions, but depending on how your DM handles things, those could easily be shut down. For example, some DMs might allow you to Fabricate unlimited suits of plate mail and sell them at a significant profit. Others might consider the demand for such a product and you might find it difficult to make any sales whatsoever. And that's if you don't attract the ire of the Guild of Armorers.

I vaguely remember some 3.5 money making schemes involving creation of expensive goods and starting a business. This could be a thing but it's definitely a long-term plan. Wall of Stone is a dao genie pact spell, and that makes for a ridiculously powerful mason.

 

[Li Shenron]

Why?

Lets presume for a second you're playing the game with a Dungeon Master.

Why should limited wish not be introduced into a game?

Why? As the DM I like magic such as this.

So if in my games? If you get such magic, I'm 100% expecting you to use it. There isn't really anything I can't roll with.
The thing is I'm also expecting you to use it in interesting ways that'll add to the story. Do that & you don't run much risk, even with a capitol letter 9th lv WISH that's going beyond the PHB guidelines.
If however you're like the OP & intend to abuse it/make things un-fun? Then to paraphrase the TV show Once Upon a Time "All magic has a cost."

It's not about the "going beyond" feature which breaks the game, because that requires DM's approval, so the DM always knows if a player's request will spell trouble, and simply make the wish not work or otherwise tinker with the wording to make it partially work. I wish (pun intended!) that Wish only allowed to be used this way, even without the permanent penalty which I find way too harsh.

What breaks the game is the ability of Wish to replicate every spell of lower level. It is never used in "interesting" or creative ways, because it replicates another spell exactly. Maybe a DM allows PHB spells to be used "creatively" ie.e. beyond the RAW, but still Wish is going to be used at most as creatively as the spell which replicates, so it doesn't add a creative edge to existing spells. On the contrary, having a spell that replicates hundreds of spells you normally don't know or have prepared, means that the player can much more easily find a non-interesting, non-creative way to pass a challenge: all they need to do is find the right spell for the occasion in the books.

Now, the only saving grace of 5e Wish is that it requires a 9th level spell slot, meaning you can get an "I win button" maximum once per day. Limited Wish will be lower level, sure it will have less spells it can replicate (still hundreds though), but it also means it can be cast more times. There is a reason why WotC desigers decided not to bring Limited Wish to 5e from older editions.

 

[Kurotowa]

Any spell off of anyone's list, 6th level or lower, without using expensive material components. How can I abuse this to make money?

That's not an easy question. Let's break down Limited Wish and see what it offers that's special in this pursuit.

Is it the ability to cast a 6th level spell? No; any full caster gets that, and at both an earlier level and without a multi-day cooldown. Is it the ability to cast a spell without needing to know or prepare it before hand? No; dealing with unexpected circumstances is useful while on an adventure, but if you're planning downtime mercantile uses then it's a planned use by definition. Is it the ability to combine a non-Warlock spell with your normal spell list? Probably not; such spell synergies are rare in 5e, and Bards have already heavily explored this field. Mostly they just poach Find Greater Steed or something.

So all that leaves us with is the ability to ignore spell requirements, including expensive material components. And it has to be something where it's acceptable that you might not be able to do it again for four days. Which doesn't give us a very large list of potential effects; the Devs have very intentionally killed a lot of the tricks of earlier editions. There's no Permanency spell and Creation only temporarily conjures materials. I mean, you can cast Dwarmij's Instant Summons or Magic Jar for free. Yay? Maybe you can sell castings of Awaken or Raise Dead or Greater Restoration with a slightly higher profit margin because you can ignore the material cost. But if you're a 14th Level PC is that really the most valuable use of your time?

So the tl;dr is that I don't think this class ability is going to trivially make you rich. It's very useful as a bag of tricks for an adventurer, and it's nice to be able to poach that Find Greater Steed or Planar Binding when you want it, but it's a relatively balanced ability that doesn't break the game.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

I'm about to start a campaign and I'm hyped to give Sorc/Warlock with The Genie pact a shot. At 14th level, the genie war gets Limited Wish -

"As an action, you can speak your desire to your Genie’s Vessel, requesting the effect of one spell that is 6th level or lower and has a casting time of 1 action. The spell can be from any class’s spell list, and you don’t need to meet the requirements in that spell, including costly components; the spell simply takes effect as part of this action."

Any spell off of anyone's list, 6th level or lower, without using expensive material components. How can I abuse this to make money?

 

[Coroc]

Maybe "abuse" wasn't really the most accurate term since I've never seen a bunch of gold ruin a high level 5e game. Most games I've played in don't have an unlimited magical wal-mart and the inability to spend gold as the game progresses is a common criticism of the edition. Having a genuine hoard of treasure as a an RP aspect of being a genie is pretty important to my concept and I'm wondering if there is a mechanical way I can make this happen in a simulationist mode instead of just hoping the DM buys into the concept as an epilogue to the campaign.

You might be right, but even w/o magic walmart, e.g. in my Greyhawk campaign you can buy war machines and really big ships if you got the dosh.

So while I would run along some edgy idea for a time, I might find my DM creativity challenged at some point. That usually results in Genies noticing missing commas in a wish, or maybe local thieves guild getting knowledge about accumulated wealth, and they will get a chance to rob the gold.
They will have to roll for their successes to break in etc. , but they will have to roll checks for it , everything stays fair game. If they do not manage it the first time, then the player better invest in added security, because the thieves will invest in whatever is needed to grant they will not fail the second attempt.

 

[NaturalZero]

It is never used in "interesting" or creative ways, because it replicates another spell exactly. .... On the contrary, having a spell that replicates hundreds of spells you normally don't know or have prepared, means that the player can much more easily find a non-interesting, non-creative way to pass a challenge: all they need to do is find the right spell for the occasion in the books.

Having a giant toolbox is always going to give you more room for creativity than trying to solve every problem with a hammer. The reason people love the wizard's versatility is because they have that big toolbox. I'm not seeing how being stuck with Eyebite, or whatever single 6th level spell, encourages more creative play than having everything in the book to work with.

So while I would run along some edgy idea for a time, I might find my DM creativity challenged at some point. That usually results in Genies noticing missing commas in a wish, or maybe local thieves guild getting knowledge about accumulated wealth, and they will get a chance to rob the gold.

At the point, the campaign would pretty much revolve around our war with thieve's guild if it's such a big deal to the DM. Not game-breaking at all, but rather narrative defining.

So all that leaves us with is the ability to ignore spell requirements, including expensive material components. And it has to be something where it's acceptable that you might not be able to do it again for four days. Which doesn't give us a very large list of potential effects; the Devs have very intentionally killed a lot of the tricks of earlier editions.

It kinda seemed that way to me. I was curious if there was some well-known strategy that I wasn't aware of, but it doesn't look like it.

So the tl;dr is that I don't think this class ability is going to trivially make you rich. It's very useful as a bag of tricks for an adventurer, and it's nice to be able to poach that Find Greater Steed or Planar Binding when you want it, but it's a relatively balanced ability that doesn't break the game.

Yup. I can think of a boatload of cool tricks this will open up for a warlock even if i can't get that hoard through mechanical means.

 

[Coroc]

...
At the point, the campaign would pretty much revolve around our war with thieve's guild if it's such a big deal to the DM. Not game-breaking at all, but rather narrative defining.
...

Wow I sometimes would love if my players would show so much initiative as to initiate an all out war against the local thieves guild. (Normally they just pay their protection money, ok I must admit, normally they get confronted at to low a level with the guild to put up a fight.)

 

[MarkB]

Having a giant toolbox is always going to give you more room for creativity than trying to solve every problem with a hammer. The reason people love the wizard's versatility is because they have that big toolbox. I'm not seeing how being stuck with Eyebite, or whatever single 6th level spell, encourages more creative play than having everything in the book to work with.

Happening to have exactly the right tool for the job isn't creative, it's just convenient. Coming up with a way to adapt a limited toolset to the task of solving a problem it was never designed to deal with is the very essence of creativity.