D&D 5E Literacy and Languages in your game

Also, when I have run games using language silos, what tends to happen is that the bard or wizard is the only character (or player) who cares enough to learn anything beyond the basic/local tongue. It actually has made the game more likely to have a designated Face.
Yeah, my bard character is a feat-variant human who immediately took Linguist.

...and then he drives the other players to fits by not speaking up in circumstances where he may have the language, expertise in Persuasion, and 18 Charisma, but he doesn't have a reason to care how the conversation goes.
 

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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
No, it means one person rolls each time, and they fail a lot because investing in the social pillar becomes prohibitively expensive. Why bother getting persuasion on my fighter if I didn't have the half dozen languages required to make it work?

The solution to this is to have a social system that encourages participation by the whole party, rather than exclude people who have told you (via their character decisions) that they want to be good at interaction. Having everyone engage in a pillar should make success more likely, not less. That is often a problem for every pillar except combat: the goal is to minimize failures, not to get more successes, which means exclusion is encouraged.

Instead of saying that a failed roll worsens an npc's attitude, simply have him worsen over time. Then the entire party can implore, lie and intimidate and make a positive difference.

You missed my point.

My point is that their are multiple solutions for the many types of groups out there.

There are many variants D&D never tried.

Some groups want a super face to handle all the talking like the rogue disarms all the traps and unlocks all the doors. So the face just takes more and more langauges until they have them all. The players as a group decide what is said for the roll result and not who rolls it matters more.

Others want the game to have an offensive face (CHA), defensive face (CHA), and support face (INT). Languages then serve as gaps to fill. They heavily spend gold on downtime to learn all the imprtant langauges and then get into social combat.

A different group might want each PC to be a specialist face. The dwarf fighter is the face when in dwarven lands. The group might give him advantage on checks in Dwarven as a native speaker and the elf the same for Elven.

Another might prefer the DM to metagame languages to be important and make the dwarven fighter the only on able to talk to an important NPC but make the check easier than the standard.

There are many ways to do it. the issue is D&D was always to afraid to give real advice or variants on the multiple ways to do social interaction.
 

Unwise

Adventurer
For every one time that having different languages adds to the fun or flavour of the campaign, there are two more times where they are an impediment to the plot or story telling we want to do. Hand-waving them or adding in people that can translate breaks down more verisimilitude than having them adds.

As such I tend towards unrealistic langauage groupings like common, giant, undercommon etc, then make a lot of ethnic dialects. PCs just need a semi-good reason to know a dialect and they can have it. E.g. I have the pirate background and a lot of Minotaurs are pirates, so my Giant language likely includes their dialect... Sure!

Snobs give you disadvantage if you don't speak their a ethnic dialect though and normal ethnic minorities are happy that you can so you often get advantage if you know their dialect.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I've gone in the other direction - unless I have a very good reason otherwise, everyone and everything speaks Common. I've found very few situations that are improved by the PCs not being able to talk to creatures they encounter.

Which isn't remotely realistic, of course, but then neither is D&D's binary choice between knowing or not knowing a language. :)
For added realism and less binary-ness, have a die roll (we use d10 exploding) for how good you are at the language.
[MENTION=5890]Saeviomagy[/MENTION] - We find that having different characters know different languages sometimes gives said different characters a chance to be the party face, for better or worse. If the Dwarf with Cha 6 is all you've got who speaks Dwarvish and you're dealing with some Dwarves who don't know anything else...well, fun times all round. :)

Most of the time, however, as long as somebody knows the language we often just get them to translate so everyone can join in...though on occasion (like my most recent session) the translator might intentionally not give a comple-etely accurate translation...

Lan-"what are words for, if no-one listens anymore"-efan
 

Saeviomagy

Adventurer
For added realism and less binary-ness, have a die roll (we use d10 exploding) for how good you are at the language.

[MENTION=5890]Saeviomagy[/MENTION] - We find that having different characters know different languages sometimes gives said different characters a chance to be the party face, for better or worse. If the Dwarf with Cha 6 is all you've got who speaks Dwarvish and you're dealing with some Dwarves who don't know anything else...well, fun times all round. :)

Most of the time, however, as long as somebody knows the language we often just get them to translate so everyone can join in...though on occasion (like my most recent session) the translator might intentionally not give a comple-etely accurate translation...

Lan-"what are words for, if no-one listens anymore"-efan

Yeah, my point is that the social pillar should not be narrowing participation down to the party face in the first place.
 


EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Strictly IMO: there's a reason most groups don't bother with language stuff, just like most groups don't bother with detailed weight allowances or precise ration tracking. It's more tedious than entertaining for most groups.

However, I do think it's possible to make it relevant and interesting, even in a game where you have "Common" and such. You can:

1. At the outset, tell your players that "Common" is simply the most widely-used language, not the universal language, and that other languages (racial/cultural, class, or otherwise) may be relevant sometimes. This preserves the "day to day interactions aren't impeded" principle, while providing opportunity for a situation where a lack of understanding creates meaningful effects. As long as the party has multiple, varied languages, different PCs can all get a chance to speak on behalf of the party--or interpret for those who can't pick up on what's happening.

2. Make sure that some of the language differences aren't actually "social roll" stuff. For instance, perhaps all the nobles of the Dwarf kingdom know how to speak Common because that's considered a necessary part of formal education, but all official court speech must occur in Old High Kazadian ("Dwarf"). Informal discussions aren't impeded, but having a Dwarf (or someone who knows the language) in the party makes for a major difference in tone...IF the DM handles it correctly! (See next point for details on that.) Although language is fantastically important for how individuals socialize, it's also super important for things like acquiring information (in 4e terms, "Streetwise"; in 5e terms, kinda-sorta "Investigation") or concealment (can't "blend in and disappear" if you don't know all the little niceties of pushing your way through a crowd!). There's also all the possible sources of written language, as well as spoken, which can make a big difference.

3. STOP handling all "hidden" speech by sharing it with the whole party, as long as one person understands. To make it actually FEEL like a foreign language, the intelligible part should come exclusively out of the mouth of the person who does know it. (If that player has IRL speech difficulties, alternate measures are of course perfectly cromulent, but the preference should be on a level of "interpretation.") Extra-special points if you attempt to sound out a garbled gibberish sentence (or a gibberish sentence in a real language nobody else at the table speaks, e.g. German for players that only speaks English, Spanish, and Japanese).

4. Come up with a handful of important concepts, metaphors, and set-phrases unique to each non-Common language possessed by the party--and possibly even a few for Common as well. Tell only those players of characters who know those languages these special terms, and ask that they refrain from sharing them with the party until they actually come up in play. This will heighten the feeling that these are actually different languages, and not merely "the language all us players are speaking, dressed up funny." I'm speaking of terms like "schadenfreude," which doesn't translate well to plain English* but is an important and commonly-understood concept in German; of idiomatic phrases like the Spanish "tomar el pelo," which literally translates as "to take the hair" but is really a metaphor, roughly meaning "to mock in a good-natured way"; and (say) how American English uses "How are you?" as a greeting and "You alright?" as a question of concern, while British English does exactly the opposite (according to Wikipedia anyway). Little linguistic flourishes like this make a huge difference in communicating a feel of other-ness, while adding very little actual labor to communication.

5. Give players the opportunity to actively improve their language skills. Initially, their knowledge is zero--they simply straight-up fail any check that would absolutely require knowing the language. However, if they make a concerted effort to learn (e.g. spend significant one-on-one time with a native/fluent speaker, such as a party member who knows the language), gradually step things up. After, say, 5-10 sessions of concerted effort, things start to pay off. You don't understand the language, but you can roll a flat check (no bonuses) with disadvantage, to attempt to puzzle out what was said. If you're within your Proficiency bonus of the DC, you figure out some but not everything (and you know this). Beat it and you have the gist even if you miss a few details; fail at less than proficiency and you either didn't understand at all, or you think you understood but are wrong (might be best to have the DM roll this secretly). Let it advance further from there--another 5-10 sessions and you can add your proficiency to the check, another 5-10 sessions after that and you no longer fail to understand completely, all fails count as the "within your proficiency value" effect. And finally, after a grand total of 20-40 sessions (or whatever scale you prefer) actively trying to learn the language (an extremely long time for most characters), you understand well enough that you no longer need to roll unless the situation is clearly bad for communicating, e.g. high winds, listening through a door, etc. You still cannot reliably speak the language yourself, and require a proper teacher to learn how to read and write it, but you can now at least get a basic understanding when the language is used in your presence.

6. Consider giving extra languages at character generation for high Int score. Currently, Int does very little other than a handful of skills and Wizard spells (and those derived from it, that is, AT and EK). Perhaps even subtract a language for a low Int mod: you only know either the Common tongue or the language common to your people (race/culture) rather than both. Gives a carrot to those who invest in good Int, and a minor but relevant stick for those who dump it.

*The dictionary definition, "pleasure derived from the misfortune of others," is iffy. The term can also apply to the relief felt when misfortune falls on another instead of you--no real desire that the person be hurt, but still being happy because somebody else suffered. It's also seen as distinct from sadism because the latter generally entails a desire to (personally) inflict pain/suffering/misfortune, while schadenfreude definitely doesn't require that.
 
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