Long Spear = Awl Pike?

[Storminator]

Yupp. See below...

Below what? Am I missing something?

PS

 

[Mistwell]

I personally think of the Great Spear from Complete Warrior as an awl pike.

15' reach would be very powerful. Imagine the number of squares you can flank from, with that reach, and still be safely far enough away so that you can guarantee an AOO against anything that approaches. A Rogues with Combat Reflexes dream...

 

[frankthedm]

I personally think of the Great Spear from Complete Warrior as an awl pike.

15' reach would be very powerful. Imagine the number of squares you can flank from, with that reach, and still be safely far enough away so that you can guarantee an AOO against anything that approaches. A Rogues with Combat Reflexes dream...

Thats the rub. When you get a weapon that long, facing starts to be neaded. Having to choose only one arc to threaten, like how a beholder has to chose which way it's antimagic eye is aimed, is about the only way to balance out such reach

 

[frankthedm]

Plus if you only threaten 15 feet out, due to the ways the combat grid's square operate, there are holes in the wielder's threatened area one just has to move diagonally to get through.

The only way around those it to let the pike threaten at 15 and 10 feet. And then you are making it too strong. But if the person with the pike can only threaten in a Cone shaped area, I think the extended reach is reasonable.

 

[Hussar]

I personally think of the Great Spear from Complete Warrior as an awl pike.

15' reach would be very powerful. Imagine the number of squares you can flank from, with that reach, and still be safely far enough away so that you can guarantee an AOO against anything that approaches. A Rogues with Combat Reflexes dream...

Well, it is burning a feat to use it, so, it should be a fair bit more powerful than a regular weapon. Is it stronger than a spiked chain? Not really. Combined with improved trip, this becomes a very sweet weapon. Particularly nice if you have two or three people shoulder to shoulder using them.

As far as the holes go, well, I guess a bit of metagaming would cure that. Besides, you don't see too many creatures calculating things that well. You'd only have to worry about medium or smaller creatures for one. Plus, in any 10 foot wide corridor, you have no problems. It's corner case enough that I'd just ignore it.

 

[Mistwell]

Plus if you only threaten 15 feet out, due to the ways the combat grid's square operate, there are holes in the wielder's threatened area one just has to move diagonally to get through.

The only way around those it to let the pike threaten at 15 and 10 feet. And then you are making it too strong. But if the person with the pike can only threaten in a Cone shaped area, I think the extended reach is reasonable.

That's really useful. Thanks Frank. (I know it is your thing, but you are good at your thing).

I don't suppose you could add two more people in there and demonstrate how many squares you can flank from with a 15' weapon?

Hey - wait a sec. Didn't I read that you DON'T count the standard 5' then 10' for diagonals when calculating a reach weapon? Yup... "Note: When determining reach, each square of diagonal distance is measured as 5 feet. This is an exception to the rule that 2 squares of diagonal distance is measured as 15 feet."

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

Here's how I statted up the sarissa, which is essentially a pike, in Master at Arms: Pikeman. To compensate for the extended reach, I made it an exotic weapon and added a penalty to hit creatures 10 feet away.



New Exotic Weapon

Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type
Sarissa 1d8 1d10 x3 -- 12 lbs Piercing

The sarissa has extended reach and can strike opponents up to 15 feet away, but its wielder suffers a –2 penalty to attack rolls when targeting opponents that are 10 feet away. As with all reach weapons, the sarissa cannot be used to attack creatures in adjacent squares. The sarissa can be set to receive a charge, dealing double damage with a successful hit against a charging opponent.

 

[Mistwell]

Here's how I statted up the sarissa, which is essentially a pike, in Master at Arms: Pikeman. To compensate for the extended reach, I made it an exotic weapon and added a penalty to hit creatures 10 feet away.



New Exotic Weapon

Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type
Sarissa 1d8 1d10 x3 -- 12 lbs Piercing

The sarissa has extended reach and can strike opponents up to 15 feet away, but its wielder suffers a –2 penalty to attack rolls when targeting opponents that are 10 feet away. As with all reach weapons, the sarissa cannot be used to attack creatures in adjacent squares. The sarissa can be set to receive a charge, dealing double damage with a successful hit against a charging opponent.

Somewhat overpowered in my opinion.

d10 damage? Can hit creatures at 15' AND 10'? Who cares if you take a penalty, it means you THREATEN at 10' also (total of 40 squares I believe)! Compare that to a Heavy Poleaxe or Great Spear (which are the best 10' reach exotic weapons I am aware of, and they threaten 16 squares and have an average damage of 7, which is 1.5 more than your weapon), and ANYONE would want to take the Sarissa over those any day of the week.

Someone with improved trip and combat reflexes would simply wipe the floor with such a weapon.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hey - wait a sec. Didn't I read that you DON'T count the standard 5' then 10' for diagonals when calculating a reach weapon? Yup... "Note: When determining reach, each square of diagonal distance is measured as 5 feet. This is an exception to the rule that 2 squares of diagonal distance is measured as 15 feet."

Hmm. I'd thought it was specific to 10 foot reach, not to all reach.

... is that quote actually an accurate reflection of the rules? The note is not in the PHB, and it's not in the SRD available from the WotC site. It looks like someone's added it to the Hypertext SRD.

The note in the PHB is "For instance, a longspear-wielding human threatens all squares 10 feet (2 squares) away, even diagonally. This is an exception to the rule that 2 squares of diagonal distance is measured as 15 feet."

By my reading, the exception is for 10 foot reach, not for all reach. The Hypertext SRD has paraphrased... and in so doing, changed the rule.

As I read it, two squares diagonal is threatened by a creature with 15 foot reach (since it's 15 feet away), and by a creature with 10 foot reach (since it's an exception). Three squares diagonal is still 20 feet away, and isn't threatened by a creature with 15 foot reach.

According to the wording in the Hypertext SRD, any creature's reach is always a square, no matter how large. Kraken with 60 foot tenatacles? Reaches a square 140 feet to a side. I don't get the impression this is what the wording in the PHB indicates.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Someone with improved trip and combat reflexes would simply wipe the floor with such a weapon.

How so, if the sarissa can't be used to Trip?

-Hyp.