Lord of the Rings TV series synopsis

[Hriston]

To me sinking is not the same as flooding.

Really? I mean, there are a number of ways a flood can happen, but surely as Númenor sank it was covered or submerged with water (i.e. flooded).

Also, Amandil only had one son, Elendil. He took three servants with him west and was never heard from again.

Okay? I didn’t say he had more than one son. I said his three servants suggested a resemblance to Noah and his three sons.

 

[Maxperson]

Really? I mean, there are a number of ways a flood can happen, but surely as Númenor sank it was covered or submerged with water (i.e. flooded).

Yes, really. Floods recede. You pretty much don't get over sinking. Calling the sinking of Numenor a flood is like saying that a guy who had his car keyed was in a car accident. Yes, technically the accident also scratches the car, but that's not what is happening primarily.

I didn’t say he had more than one son. I said his three servants suggested a resemblance to Noah and his three sons.

Early morning and a migraine, so I missed that. I still think it's a stretch.

 

[Ryujin]

To me sinking is not the same as flooding. Also, Amandil only had one son, Elendil. He took three servants with him west and was never heard from again.

Definitely more Atlantis, than Biblical Flood, I would say.

 

[Hriston]

Yes, really. Floods recede. You pretty much don't get over sinking. Calling the sinking of Numenor a flood is like saying that a guy who had his car keyed was in a car accident. Yes, technically the accident also scratches the car, but that's not what is happening primarily.

Early morning and a migraine, so I missed that. I still think it's a stretch.

Well, if you don’t consider land being covered by water to be a flood, then people escaping in boats from such an event is going to seem like a stretch. I don’t think the exact nature of the cataclysm is that important. I think it’s sufficient to draw a comparison that both stories feature people escaping from cataclysms in boats. If you want proof that Tolkien was thinking along these lines, see in his letter #131, to Milton Waldman, in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, p. 156 where he describes Elendil as "a Noachian figure".

Edited because posted accidentally before finished.

 

[Maxperson]

Well, if you don’t consider land being covered by water to be a flood, then people escaping in boats from such an event is going to seem like a stretch. I don’t think the exact nature of the cataclysm is that important. I think it’s sufficient to draw a comparison that both stories feature people escaping from cataclysms in boats. If you want proof that Tolkien was thinking along these lines, see in his letter #131, to Milton Waldman, in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, p. 156 where he describes Elendil as "a Noachian figure".

Edited because posted accidentally before finished.

Are you sure you meant letter 131? I just read that letter and there was no mention of Elendil or flooding/sinking. There is one brief mention of Numenor, but nothing specific.

 

[Ryujin]

Are you sure you meant letter 131? I just read that letter and there was no mention of Elendil or flooding/sinking. There is one brief mention of Numenor, but nothing specific.

Just checked. It's there.

"So the end of the Second Age draws on in a major catastrophe; but it is not yet quite concluded.From the cataclysm there are survivors : Elendil the Fair, chief of the Faithful (his name means Elf-friend), and his sons Isildur and Anarion. Elendil, a Noachian figure, who has held off from therebellion, and kept ships manned and furnished off the east coast of Númenor, flees before theoverwhelming storm of the wrath of the West, and is borne high upon the towering waves that bringruin to the west of the Middle-earth."

 

[Maxperson]

Just checked. It's there.

"So the end of the Second Age draws on in a major catastrophe; but it is not yet quite concluded.From the cataclysm there are survivors : Elendil the Fair, chief of the Faithful (his name means Elf-friend), and his sons Isildur and Anarion. Elendil, a Noachian figure, who has held off from therebellion, and kept ships manned and furnished off the east coast of Númenor, flees before theoverwhelming storm of the wrath of the West, and is borne high upon the towering waves that bringruin to the west of the Middle-earth."

Huh. I looked and it wasn't in the 131 that I read. Odd. Anyway, thanks!!

So that would make Elendil the one, not Amandil and his three servants.

 

[Hriston]

So that would make Elendil the one, not Amandil and his three servants.

Aside from a literal act of God bringing about its destruction (and flooding), I think the point of resemblance for me is the escape of the Faithful (Elendil, his sons, and their people) from the disaster on ships furnished at the behest of Amandil.

 

[Maxperson]

@Hriston You said this in the quote you just quoted, but cut it out. "Also, the makeup of the crew of Amandil’s voyage west to seek the aid of the Valar, comprised of himself and three faithful servants, suggests to me a resemblance to Noah and his three sons."

 

[Hriston]

It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Does it? I’ve shown strong support from the author that a connection to the Flood was intended, which is what I think you started as objecting to. Now you’re drilling down on Amandil. I have no idea what your argument is.